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I urge anyone who is using dark patterns in their software or business models to take a step back and think about this: some of the people your projects engage

I urge anyone who is using dark patterns in their software or business models to take a step back and think about this: some of the people your projects engage are fighting to keep their head above water. Your decisions, however abstracted they may be from these people, could make or break somebody's will to live. Concretely, I was so disheartened to hear of Facebook/Cornell's studies a few years back around effecting users moods by controlling the negativity of content. In the communities I come from mental health is not simple and people are dying. Relationships are being stretched. People are out on thin ice just to survive. Those researchers were clearly completely out of touch with the gravity of their decision to experiment on people like that. We need to do better.

crispinb 7y ago
> I urge anyone who is using dark patterns in their software or business models to take a step back and think about this ... It's a complex systems problem, not one of great men losing a grip on ethics. Regardless of their individual conversance with (and willingness to be constrained by) ethical principles, the machine will remould or replace them if they get in the way. It's pretty Darwinian, and takes little account of the evanescent electrochemical flutterings of wealthy brains. Barely restrained oligarchical capitalism is destroying all ecosystem and societies. We dismantle it, or it destroys us.
- macawfish 7y ago
  > ...it's a complex systems problem... I very much agree with you. Look, I don't consider hn readers to be some elite crowd of "great men" (no offense everybody). My point wasn't about "great men solving the problem" of inequity. Rather, this was an opportunity for me to speak to an audience whose privilege might often shield them from the downstream realities of the consequences of their actions, from the stakes. This particular issue is very important to me and hits very, very close to home. > We dismantle it, or it destroys us. "We" is who I was addressing (not so much "great men"). I'm aware that people reading this website have a certain kind of agency. The fact that this is a systemic issue means that it's on each of us to critically awaken to the world in ways that stretch us outside of our comfort zones, and to discover our agency in dismantling systems of oppression. It doesn't absolve people of privilege from doing the hard work, nor does it absolve oppressed people of theirs.
  - crispinb 7y ago
    OK, well said. If I jumped the gun a little, it's due to my acute (& perhaps too raw) sense of how a narrow focus on individual responsibility frequently serves to protect the very systems that are being subject to criticism. I can see now that you intended something more nuanced.
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traderjane 7y ago
But how many people on HN have this level of authority... it's akin to asking the person who flips the burgers to think about American health. People who set research agenda at Facebook likely have PhD's and are involved primarily in research.
- deleted 7y ago
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crispinb 7y ago

> I urge anyone who is using dark patterns in their software or business models to take a step back and think about this ... It's a complex systems problem, not one of great men losing a grip on ethics. Regardless of their individual conversance with (and willingness to be constrained by) ethical principles, the machine will remould or replace them if they get in the way. It's pretty Darwinian, and takes little account of the evanescent electrochemical flutterings of wealthy brains. Barely restrained oligarchical capitalism is destroying all ecosystem and societies. We dismantle it, or it destroys us.

macawfish 7y ago
> ...it's a complex systems problem... I very much agree with you. Look, I don't consider hn readers to be some elite crowd of "great men" (no offense everybody). My point wasn't about "great men solving the problem" of inequity. Rather, this was an opportunity for me to speak to an audience whose privilege might often shield them from the downstream realities of the consequences of their actions, from the stakes. This particular issue is very important to me and hits very, very close to home. > We dismantle it, or it destroys us. "We" is who I was addressing (not so much "great men"). I'm aware that people reading this website have a certain kind of agency. The fact that this is a systemic issue means that it's on each of us to critically awaken to the world in ways that stretch us outside of our comfort zones, and to discover our agency in dismantling systems of oppression. It doesn't absolve people of privilege from doing the hard work, nor does it absolve oppressed people of theirs.
- crispinb 7y ago
  OK, well said. If I jumped the gun a little, it's due to my acute (& perhaps too raw) sense of how a narrow focus on individual responsibility frequently serves to protect the very systems that are being subject to criticism. I can see now that you intended something more nuanced.

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traderjane 7y ago

But how many people on HN have this level of authority... it's akin to asking the person who flips the burgers to think about American health. People who set research agenda at Facebook likely have PhD's and are involved primarily in research.

deleted 7y ago
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