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I didn't downvote you, but I see no data, only anecdotes, poor forms of argumentation ("most of us ..."), and outright mistruths (your health care is in no way,

I didn't downvote you, but I see no data, only anecdotes, poor forms of argumentation ("most of us ..."), and outright mistruths (your health care is in no way, shape, or form "free") ... and HN tends to downvote this sort of content.

lostgame 7y ago
How is USA health care not being free untrue? Furthermore, I actually had to search, you're putting words in my mouth and misquoting me, there - I never, ever, said, anything along the lines 'in no way, shape or form is it free'. I'm aware of insurance, I lived there, I'm not dumb, and I don't appreciate people misquoting me, or putting words in my mouth, thanks. I lived there, I would know...that's not something I think needs backed up by data...I'd be happy to provide it. Also, how is something like ICE an 'anecdote'? ICE is one of the biggest crimes against humanity that is still ongoing. I hear horror stories every other day. EDIT: added references for everything. Here: '6 reasons why health care is still so expensive in the USA' https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061... Weather aside - Chicago, with a population of 2.7mil, reported 86,324 Chicagoans were homeless in 2017[1], vs. 9200 in Toronto[2], which has a population of 2.9mil. [1]https://www.chicagohomeless.org/faq-studies/ https://www.chicagohomeless.org/faq-studies/ [2]https://homesfirst.on.ca/info-stats https://homesfirst.on.ca/info-stats
- mullen 7y ago
  > ICE is one of the biggest crimes against humanity that is still ongoing. It's hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like this. Kids in cages is bad but pick up a history book and you will find much much much worse. I can point to number events going on right now or recent memory that are worse. > I hear horror stories every other day. No, you don't. Stop being Miss Hyperbole and people will take you seriously. Also, Health Care is NEVER free since you pay for it one way or another.
  - lliamander 7y ago
    > Also, Health Care is NEVER free since you pay for it one way or another. TANSTAAFL. Also, it is a finite resource, and like all finite resources must be rationed in some manner. I'm saying I like how the U.S. health care system works, but I also don't think the only alternative is to have it government run.
  - tzs 7y ago
    > Also, Health Care is NEVER free since you pay for it one way or another That's kind of nit-picky. Government services that aren't paid for by user fees at the time of service but rather out of some kind of general tax whose rate you pay doesn't depend on whether you use the service or not are often referred to as "free" in normal conversation. For example, most people would consider GPS a free service provided by the government, but obviously there are costs to provide it. Those costs are paid out of general US tax revenue. When people talk of "free" healthcare, they almost always mean free in that sense.
PhasmaFelis 7y ago
> your health care is in no way, shape, or form "free" Are you nitpicking over the definition of the word "free" because it's taxpayer-funded? You should know that "free healthcare" is shorthand for "you are unlikely to be bankrupted by, or forced to do without, necessary treatment because your insurance is not up to snuff."
- mullen 7y ago
  No one is nitpicking, you are just seriously incorrect. Free means to not pay for something. Saying that Health Care is free is to say that the user of Health Care does not have to pay for its cost. Health Care is never free, no matter the system in which it is provided.
  - mthoms 7y ago
    Your definition of free is correct, so it's fair to briefly point out that health care is not actually free in Canada. On the other hand, everybody knows that, including the person using the word "free". So over-focusing on the word is a form of nitpicking IMHO. People often use the word "free" to mean - I can use this service without even thinking about money. As everyone on HN will tell you... Google and Facebook's services are not free (you're just paying in a different way) but they're commonly described as "free" services. So.. you're both right.
  - PhasmaFelis 7y ago
    Colloquialisms exist. If you insist on assuming that everyone intends only the strict dictionary definitions of words, you're going to (continue to) get in silly misunderstandings. When people say "free health care," they don't mean literally free, they mean you won't receive a bill after treatment. Maybe you don't like that usage. I don't like it when people use "literally" to mean "a whole lot." The language doesn't care what either of us likes.

lostgame 7y ago

How is USA health care not being free untrue? Furthermore, I actually had to search, you're putting words in my mouth and misquoting me, there - I never, ever, said, anything along the lines 'in no way, shape or form is it free'. I'm aware of insurance, I lived there, I'm not dumb, and I don't appreciate people misquoting me, or putting words in my mouth, thanks. I lived there, I would know...that's not something I think needs backed up by data...I'd be happy to provide it. Also, how is something like ICE an 'anecdote'? ICE is one of the biggest crimes against humanity that is still ongoing. I hear horror stories every other day. EDIT: added references for everything. Here: '6 reasons why health care is still so expensive in the USA' https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/080615/6-reasons-healthcare-so-expensive-us.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/08061... Weather aside - Chicago, with a population of 2.7mil, reported 86,324 Chicagoans were homeless in 2017[1], vs. 9200 in Toronto[2], which has a population of 2.9mil. [1]https://www.chicagohomeless.org/faq-studies/ https://www.chicagohomeless.org/faq-studies/ [2]https://homesfirst.on.ca/info-stats https://homesfirst.on.ca/info-stats

mullen 7y ago
> ICE is one of the biggest crimes against humanity that is still ongoing. It's hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like this. Kids in cages is bad but pick up a history book and you will find much much much worse. I can point to number events going on right now or recent memory that are worse. > I hear horror stories every other day. No, you don't. Stop being Miss Hyperbole and people will take you seriously. Also, Health Care is NEVER free since you pay for it one way or another.
- lliamander 7y ago
  > Also, Health Care is NEVER free since you pay for it one way or another. TANSTAAFL. Also, it is a finite resource, and like all finite resources must be rationed in some manner. I'm saying I like how the U.S. health care system works, but I also don't think the only alternative is to have it government run.
- tzs 7y ago
  > Also, Health Care is NEVER free since you pay for it one way or another That's kind of nit-picky. Government services that aren't paid for by user fees at the time of service but rather out of some kind of general tax whose rate you pay doesn't depend on whether you use the service or not are often referred to as "free" in normal conversation. For example, most people would consider GPS a free service provided by the government, but obviously there are costs to provide it. Those costs are paid out of general US tax revenue. When people talk of "free" healthcare, they almost always mean free in that sense.

PhasmaFelis 7y ago

> your health care is in no way, shape, or form "free" Are you nitpicking over the definition of the word "free" because it's taxpayer-funded? You should know that "free healthcare" is shorthand for "you are unlikely to be bankrupted by, or forced to do without, necessary treatment because your insurance is not up to snuff."

mullen 7y ago
No one is nitpicking, you are just seriously incorrect. Free means to not pay for something. Saying that Health Care is free is to say that the user of Health Care does not have to pay for its cost. Health Care is never free, no matter the system in which it is provided.
- mthoms 7y ago
  Your definition of free is correct, so it's fair to briefly point out that health care is not actually free in Canada. On the other hand, everybody knows that, including the person using the word "free". So over-focusing on the word is a form of nitpicking IMHO. People often use the word "free" to mean - I can use this service without even thinking about money. As everyone on HN will tell you... Google and Facebook's services are not free (you're just paying in a different way) but they're commonly described as "free" services. So.. you're both right.
- PhasmaFelis 7y ago
  Colloquialisms exist. If you insist on assuming that everyone intends only the strict dictionary definitions of words, you're going to (continue to) get in silly misunderstandings. When people say "free health care," they don't mean literally free, they mean you won't receive a bill after treatment. Maybe you don't like that usage. I don't like it when people use "literally" to mean "a whole lot." The language doesn't care what either of us likes.