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Wow. We have an drug problem that kills 40,000+/year from overdoses. Over a million people die driving in the world PER YEAR. A small bit of perspective. Pla

Wow. We have an drug problem that kills 40,000+/year from overdoses. Over a million people die driving in the world PER YEAR. A small bit of perspective. Plane flying used to be much MORE dangerous before the "corrupt" FAA got involved with the airplane companies to regulate things more closely. The 737 MAX has had no US passenger fatalities flying with US licensed pilots. The record of safety in aviation in the last few years within the US has been extremely strong. Just interesting that big pharma walks free, but Hilary Clinton and the FAA are getting the "lock them up" chants.

salawat 7y ago
So... You're not keeping up with the news are you? If there's anything that's causing the pharma controversy to stall, it's that the cross section of companies involved have significant non pharmaceutical revenue bases to pull from in funding their defense. Also, to be quite frank, pharma is getting legislative, not just judicial attention as well. There is a reckoning in the works for quite a few industrial verticals. However, where things are different with aviation is that every last person on each plane had absolutely no ability to influence what ended up happening. The documentation around the process is also far better and more auditable than the collective sales activity of every actor in the pharmaceutical industry. Give it time. These things require proof, and proof takes time to collect and sift through.
tempguy9999 7y ago
> The 737 MAX has had no US passenger fatalities flying with US licensed pilots As a non-US citizen, I find that comment really disturbing. > Just interesting that big pharma walks free "Drugmaker Johnson & Johnson must pay $572m (£468m) for its part in fuelling Oklahoma's opioid addiction crisis, a judge in the US state has ruled." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49452373 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49452373 I understand other states are lining up too.
- uniformlyrandom 7y ago
  As a human being (that happens to be a US citizen), I find OP's comment really disturbing. The whole comment is whataboutism, so maybe this was just an intentional red herring.
  - privateSFacct 7y ago
    If you think folks who have a record in the US (where they can enforce regulations around maintenance, training, ATC, airport design) should be in JAIL for creating a system which has an incredible safety rate among ALL modes of transit I find that disturbing. Seriously - we need MORE folks attracted to public service, not going to jail because armchair quarterbacks on the internet are upset. The safety chain in the US has an absolutely incredible record. And there have been PLENTY of design and other failures along the way even in the US BTW
    - tempguy9999 7y ago
      Pick this apart why don't we. (edit: that came across rude, sorry) > If you think folks [...] should be in JAIL Who is 'folks' here - the entirety of the FAA and boeing? Or more likely just the very few at the top who messed up; those in the FAA who didn't do their job (maybe, maybe not) or those at boeing that took advantage of self-certification to cut corners? Top boeing executives probably earn millions a year, basically they are paid to make the right decisions. That's key. Seems they didn't. FAA probably less. Now you mention it, it seems likely FAA's share of the blame is the lesser, maybe. > which has an incredible safety rate among ALL modes of transit True, and still does, but we now have a case of 2 planeloads of people dead, and a very major US manufacturer that's... well, I don't know but having 5,000 orders frozen for an unknown time can't be good. If that could have been avoided then it should have. Those responsible, should there be a penalty? If so, in your view, if not jail then what? There are plenty of people in US jails far more trivial things. Can this be right?
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  US / FAA airlines, particularly on a per passenger mile flown basis (which for US carriers is a huge number) are incredibly safe - both against other modes of transit and same mode in a number of other countries. I won't get into all the reasons - many understandable, many addressable. But one small point - it generally takes a chain of issues (from design to maintenance to PIC) to result in an fatality these days. Paying fines is not jail time. The big white collar criminals never seem to actually do jail time. Many don't even pay back their bonuses or sell their second homes. A guy selling MJ can get jail time and someone killing 10K people get's a vacation home in the bahamas.
simion314 7y ago
Any reason you think that this crashes would not have ever happened in US? Before the first crash the pilots did not even known abut MCAS existence so I am not sure why you think that US pilots are extraordinary, I assume that not all MAX pilots are ex fighter pilots with super skills and whatever you imagine that makes ALL US pilots superior to the rest of the world.
- matz1 7y ago
  So is it merely luck that this crashes doesn't happen in US ?
  - simion314 7y ago
    IMO yes, but even if US pilots are in average 10x better there still was a chance that you would fly with a 1x pilot and because he would have followed the checklist and crash the plane. Do you have facts that say that the probability of this happening in US was 0 ?
    - matz1 7y ago
      I don't think anyone insinuating that the probability of this happening in US was 0 but the fact remain that the number of crash so far is 0.
      - bronson 7y ago
        The fact is, Greece also has 0 crashes. Your statement doesn't make any sense. What is different about the US? (Other than we had fewer MAX-8 deliveries than the rest of the world)
        matz1 7y ago
        Which of my statement doesn't make any sense ? >What is different about the US? Thats the question that I asked.
londons_explore 7y ago
And, the grounding of these planes probably indirectly causes more deaths than keeping them flying. Imagine how many more people choose to drive to their destination? Or who have to keep using older models of plane which pump out more tons of CO2, killing the environment and people who might not even be born yet?

salawat 7y ago

So... You're not keeping up with the news are you? If there's anything that's causing the pharma controversy to stall, it's that the cross section of companies involved have significant non pharmaceutical revenue bases to pull from in funding their defense. Also, to be quite frank, pharma is getting legislative, not just judicial attention as well. There is a reckoning in the works for quite a few industrial verticals. However, where things are different with aviation is that every last person on each plane had absolutely no ability to influence what ended up happening. The documentation around the process is also far better and more auditable than the collective sales activity of every actor in the pharmaceutical industry. Give it time. These things require proof, and proof takes time to collect and sift through.

tempguy9999 7y ago

> The 737 MAX has had no US passenger fatalities flying with US licensed pilots As a non-US citizen, I find that comment really disturbing. > Just interesting that big pharma walks free "Drugmaker Johnson & Johnson must pay $572m (£468m) for its part in fuelling Oklahoma's opioid addiction crisis, a judge in the US state has ruled." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49452373 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49452373 I understand other states are lining up too.

uniformlyrandom 7y ago
As a human being (that happens to be a US citizen), I find OP's comment really disturbing. The whole comment is whataboutism, so maybe this was just an intentional red herring.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  If you think folks who have a record in the US (where they can enforce regulations around maintenance, training, ATC, airport design) should be in JAIL for creating a system which has an incredible safety rate among ALL modes of transit I find that disturbing. Seriously - we need MORE folks attracted to public service, not going to jail because armchair quarterbacks on the internet are upset. The safety chain in the US has an absolutely incredible record. And there have been PLENTY of design and other failures along the way even in the US BTW
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    Pick this apart why don't we. (edit: that came across rude, sorry) > If you think folks [...] should be in JAIL Who is 'folks' here - the entirety of the FAA and boeing? Or more likely just the very few at the top who messed up; those in the FAA who didn't do their job (maybe, maybe not) or those at boeing that took advantage of self-certification to cut corners? Top boeing executives probably earn millions a year, basically they are paid to make the right decisions. That's key. Seems they didn't. FAA probably less. Now you mention it, it seems likely FAA's share of the blame is the lesser, maybe. > which has an incredible safety rate among ALL modes of transit True, and still does, but we now have a case of 2 planeloads of people dead, and a very major US manufacturer that's... well, I don't know but having 5,000 orders frozen for an unknown time can't be good. If that could have been avoided then it should have. Those responsible, should there be a penalty? If so, in your view, if not jail then what? There are plenty of people in US jails far more trivial things. Can this be right?
privateSFacct 7y ago
US / FAA airlines, particularly on a per passenger mile flown basis (which for US carriers is a huge number) are incredibly safe - both against other modes of transit and same mode in a number of other countries. I won't get into all the reasons - many understandable, many addressable. But one small point - it generally takes a chain of issues (from design to maintenance to PIC) to result in an fatality these days. Paying fines is not jail time. The big white collar criminals never seem to actually do jail time. Many don't even pay back their bonuses or sell their second homes. A guy selling MJ can get jail time and someone killing 10K people get's a vacation home in the bahamas.

simion314 7y ago

Any reason you think that this crashes would not have ever happened in US? Before the first crash the pilots did not even known abut MCAS existence so I am not sure why you think that US pilots are extraordinary, I assume that not all MAX pilots are ex fighter pilots with super skills and whatever you imagine that makes ALL US pilots superior to the rest of the world.

matz1 7y ago
So is it merely luck that this crashes doesn't happen in US ?
- simion314 7y ago
  IMO yes, but even if US pilots are in average 10x better there still was a chance that you would fly with a 1x pilot and because he would have followed the checklist and crash the plane. Do you have facts that say that the probability of this happening in US was 0 ?
  - matz1 7y ago
    I don't think anyone insinuating that the probability of this happening in US was 0 but the fact remain that the number of crash so far is 0.
    - bronson 7y ago
      The fact is, Greece also has 0 crashes. Your statement doesn't make any sense. What is different about the US? (Other than we had fewer MAX-8 deliveries than the rest of the world)
      - matz1 7y ago
        Which of my statement doesn't make any sense ? >What is different about the US? Thats the question that I asked.

londons_explore 7y ago

And, the grounding of these planes probably indirectly causes more deaths than keeping them flying. Imagine how many more people choose to drive to their destination? Or who have to keep using older models of plane which pump out more tons of CO2, killing the environment and people who might not even be born yet?