3 ms·

Give more Green Cards to smart people!! Tottally self serving statement, but if I had a green card, I probably would be doing something more inovative than wha

by ardit33 18y ago

Give more Green Cards to smart people!! Tottally self serving statement, but if I had a green card, I probably would be doing something more inovative than what I am doing at my current job. It is amazing the hoops that some people have to go thru, before being able to fully utilize their capabilities for this country (and themselves). This is the only country where a foreign, after living for few decades, can get citizen ship AND can truly say they are "American". While a foreigner in an european country, will always remain a foreigner, even they get the citizenship, a second class citizen. This simple but fundemental difference, is the one that will keep attracting young bright people to come to this country. That is a huge competitive advantage against other really well developed countries. Caveat: In the south, you will still remain and feel as a foreigner. But my fully american brother-in-law born in Iowa, said, he felt an foreigner himself when he travels to some part of USA

schtog 18y ago
"While a foreigner in an european country, will always remain a foreigner, even they get the citizenship, a second class citizen." unfortuneately i think it is a fair amount of truth in this.
- bbgm 18y ago
  One reason I never even considered moving to Europe, but the US is getting really hard to get into. I am glad I moved here 12 years ago. Others are having a tough time and are often hostage to their companies since they can't change jobs easily.
makecheck 18y ago
I agree...I feel quite shackled by the green card "process", which consists largely of incomprehensibly lengthy delays. It doesn't make me feel valued at all. If I had it to do over, I would change this: get a PhD FIRST! If you educate in your own country and then come to the U.S., you are put into this magic bin that says you're better than everybody else, and 90% of the bull in the process is removed.
- hugh 18y ago
  Really? Which magic bin is that? I've got a PhD from a foreign university and I'd like to get a green card at some point in the future. (Haven't started looking into it yet, still on a J1 visa.)
  - makecheck 18y ago
    One example is Outstanding Researcher (highest preference category) EB1-OR, which can actually be filed in parallel with an application in a lower preference category. Technically a PhD isn't necessary, but you're almost certain to have a PhD if you meet the actual requirements. If you have international recognition as being outstanding in a field, or significant experience in teaching or research, or you enter in a position of tenure at a university, you can accelerate your green card application with EB1-OR.
eugenejen 18y ago
The problem is how to quantify "smartness" in American immigration legal system. For most young hackers like the ones in YC, the green card process becomes almost impossible for them because for new bachelor degree holders from a school outside U.S. without any significant working experience, they will be lumped as EB3 if they need a employer and 3 to 4 years in a queue and they need to work to make sure the employer won't go belly up during the process. Otherwise they have to walk a path like Auctomatic founders did to get E-1 or E-2 and they need some capital first to apply for E-1 or E-2 visas. If they apply for H-1B, they can not be the owners of their own company. Current immigration system stresses heavily on academic achievements. But does a guy who finishes Ph.D. or master degree a good hacker? Not necessary. Is he/she a good innovators in product design or technology? Not necessary. Unfortunately, what U.S.A needs is potential stars like Robert Tappan Morris. But in current system, if RTM was convicted of a crime outside U.S., he will be denied of petition. (But I may be wrong because DVD Jon is in U.S. now) If a smart kids can create a Google like company in Europe or China, it won't be his/her interest to immigrate to U.S. to pay big taxes here in coming years for social security deficiency and cost of Iraq war, right? But the current system puts too much stress on past achievements as a proof for "smartness". That may work before when pace of competition is not so fast as 1986, but it starts to be incompatible with current software/internet industry. When green card process takes 4 to 5 years to finish, then only existing big companies can be reliable sponsors. while the real wealth creators are start ups and they are unable to get who they need. When a start up sponsors green card, immigration authority requires tax record (so the company has to exist for at least 1 calendar year), had some news paper reviews for product and blah blah blah so on. The authority will ask "what is techcrunch? the company is on techcrunch but did the company hit WSJ, USA today or NYT? Is this company a real company and not a sham? Oh, the company loses money, how do you guy can run this company for another 5 years to pay for this guy on petition?" Well, if we know the company will be in next 5 years, then it is not a start up just in Angel stage. It is already a serial A/B company. I think the current system may be fixable, but if congress can not even figure out what went wrong (And believe me, I think they are clueness because they may never heard of YC :-) ) How can they fix the problem?

by ardit33 18y ago

schtog 18y ago

"While a foreigner in an european country, will always remain a foreigner, even they get the citizenship, a second class citizen." unfortuneately i think it is a fair amount of truth in this.

bbgm 18y ago
One reason I never even considered moving to Europe, but the US is getting really hard to get into. I am glad I moved here 12 years ago. Others are having a tough time and are often hostage to their companies since they can't change jobs easily.

makecheck 18y ago

I agree...I feel quite shackled by the green card "process", which consists largely of incomprehensibly lengthy delays. It doesn't make me feel valued at all. If I had it to do over, I would change this: get a PhD FIRST! If you educate in your own country and then come to the U.S., you are put into this magic bin that says you're better than everybody else, and 90% of the bull in the process is removed.

hugh 18y ago
Really? Which magic bin is that? I've got a PhD from a foreign university and I'd like to get a green card at some point in the future. (Haven't started looking into it yet, still on a J1 visa.)
- makecheck 18y ago
  One example is Outstanding Researcher (highest preference category) EB1-OR, which can actually be filed in parallel with an application in a lower preference category. Technically a PhD isn't necessary, but you're almost certain to have a PhD if you meet the actual requirements. If you have international recognition as being outstanding in a field, or significant experience in teaching or research, or you enter in a position of tenure at a university, you can accelerate your green card application with EB1-OR.

eugenejen 18y ago

The problem is how to quantify "smartness" in American immigration legal system. For most young hackers like the ones in YC, the green card process becomes almost impossible for them because for new bachelor degree holders from a school outside U.S. without any significant working experience, they will be lumped as EB3 if they need a employer and 3 to 4 years in a queue and they need to work to make sure the employer won't go belly up during the process. Otherwise they have to walk a path like Auctomatic founders did to get E-1 or E-2 and they need some capital first to apply for E-1 or E-2 visas. If they apply for H-1B, they can not be the owners of their own company. Current immigration system stresses heavily on academic achievements. But does a guy who finishes Ph.D. or master degree a good hacker? Not necessary. Is he/she a good innovators in product design or technology? Not necessary. Unfortunately, what U.S.A needs is potential stars like Robert Tappan Morris. But in current system, if RTM was convicted of a crime outside U.S., he will be denied of petition. (But I may be wrong because DVD Jon is in U.S. now) If a smart kids can create a Google like company in Europe or China, it won't be his/her interest to immigrate to U.S. to pay big taxes here in coming years for social security deficiency and cost of Iraq war, right? But the current system puts too much stress on past achievements as a proof for "smartness". That may work before when pace of competition is not so fast as 1986, but it starts to be incompatible with current software/internet industry. When green card process takes 4 to 5 years to finish, then only existing big companies can be reliable sponsors. while the real wealth creators are start ups and they are unable to get who they need. When a start up sponsors green card, immigration authority requires tax record (so the company has to exist for at least 1 calendar year), had some news paper reviews for product and blah blah blah so on. The authority will ask "what is techcrunch? the company is on techcrunch but did the company hit WSJ, USA today or NYT? Is this company a real company and not a sham? Oh, the company loses money, how do you guy can run this company for another 5 years to pay for this guy on petition?" Well, if we know the company will be in next 5 years, then it is not a start up just in Angel stage. It is already a serial A/B company. I think the current system may be fixable, but if congress can not even figure out what went wrong (And believe me, I think they are clueness because they may never heard of YC :-) ) How can they fix the problem?