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It seems tricky to argue that affairs between bosses and subordinates are destructive to tech companies, in a world where Bill Gates married a subordinate and L

It seems tricky to argue that affairs between bosses and subordinates are destructive to tech companies, in a world where Bill Gates married a subordinate and Larry Page had an affair with one. I think the fight against "inappropriate" behavior at work is in large part driven by busybodies.

thewarrior 7y ago
I think relationships between people who report to each other are problematic. Affairs, marriages , relationships doesn’t matter. The rest don’t cause as many problems.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  They can be more problematic because they can lead to perceptions of unfair or biased treatment at work. That doesn't mean they are problematic in most cases though. There are other ways to deal with that though short of banning or moving people, eg adding additional scrutiny of decisions by an uninvolved third party and having objective decision making criteria for career related points (promotions, bonuses, pay rises, firings etc) where possible.
  - betterunix2 7y ago
    Let's say Alice is having an affair with subordinate Bob. One day Bob has a big screw up with something Alice assigned him, and Alice needs to reprimand him for it (that is part of being a person's supervisor). There is no uninvolved third party to call in here -- that is Alice's job as Bob's boss. One way or another their romantic relationship will impact their professional relationship in this situation -- either Alice will be too gentle with Bob, and everyone will perceive favoritism, or Alice will be too harsh with Bob and risk damaging their personal relationship. Very few people would be able to respond appropriately here -- in either the supervisor or subordinate position (and both need to do so).
nilkn 7y ago
Your two examples are not so compelling when set aside a third example, the example of the article, in which someone's life was significantly harmed as a result of an affair at work. Do you care only about companies, or do you care about the individuals who comprise them as well?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cousin_it 7y ago
  (deleted)
  - nilkn 7y ago
    I don't think I said anything about holding the company accountable for the irresponsible actions of two employees. Under question is whether the company should be concerned about romantic involvement within reporting relationships. This compromises the ability of the manager to provide appropriate performance feedback and also poses a considerably elevated risk of favoritism, which can cause morale issues for the whole team. It may or may not be destructive to the entire company, but it certainly is a risk that could cause a number of issues for a number of people, including both personal and career harm. I've had to navigate a scenario like this once before in my career, and it was definitely one of the more stressful things I've dealt with.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
pjc50 7y ago
Regardless of whether they're harmful to success, they can be very harmful to individuals who are coerced.
betterunix2 7y ago
Preferential treatment or the perception of preferential treatment by a manager with respect to subordinates is an organizational challenge in general -- at tech companies and elsewhere. If employees do not believe they are being treated fairly the result is poor morale, worse performance, and eventually seeking jobs elsewhere (which can deprive companies of needed talent). The Department of Labor has the statistics on this -- the main complaint most people have about their supervisors is unfair treatment of some kind. There is also the question of how a romantic relationship can impact a professional relationship. A manager needs to be able to reprimand their subordinates, and sometimes even fire them. Romantic relationships complicate those situations. It works the other way too -- sometimes romantic relationships need to end, and that might spill over into the workplace (see e.g. the reporting on [edited for correctness] Sergey's affair). It should be blindingly obvious that managers and their subordinates should not have romantic relationships. There are countless problems, and almost no upside for any of the people involved.

thewarrior 7y ago

I think relationships between people who report to each other are problematic. Affairs, marriages , relationships doesn’t matter. The rest don’t cause as many problems.

tomatocracy 7y ago
They can be more problematic because they can lead to perceptions of unfair or biased treatment at work. That doesn't mean they are problematic in most cases though. There are other ways to deal with that though short of banning or moving people, eg adding additional scrutiny of decisions by an uninvolved third party and having objective decision making criteria for career related points (promotions, bonuses, pay rises, firings etc) where possible.
- betterunix2 7y ago
  Let's say Alice is having an affair with subordinate Bob. One day Bob has a big screw up with something Alice assigned him, and Alice needs to reprimand him for it (that is part of being a person's supervisor). There is no uninvolved third party to call in here -- that is Alice's job as Bob's boss. One way or another their romantic relationship will impact their professional relationship in this situation -- either Alice will be too gentle with Bob, and everyone will perceive favoritism, or Alice will be too harsh with Bob and risk damaging their personal relationship. Very few people would be able to respond appropriately here -- in either the supervisor or subordinate position (and both need to do so).

nilkn 7y ago

Your two examples are not so compelling when set aside a third example, the example of the article, in which someone's life was significantly harmed as a result of an affair at work. Do you care only about companies, or do you care about the individuals who comprise them as well?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cousin_it 7y ago
(deleted)
- nilkn 7y ago
  I don't think I said anything about holding the company accountable for the irresponsible actions of two employees. Under question is whether the company should be concerned about romantic involvement within reporting relationships. This compromises the ability of the manager to provide appropriate performance feedback and also poses a considerably elevated risk of favoritism, which can cause morale issues for the whole team. It may or may not be destructive to the entire company, but it certainly is a risk that could cause a number of issues for a number of people, including both personal and career harm. I've had to navigate a scenario like this once before in my career, and it was definitely one of the more stressful things I've dealt with.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

pjc50 7y ago

Regardless of whether they're harmful to success, they can be very harmful to individuals who are coerced.

betterunix2 7y ago

Preferential treatment or the perception of preferential treatment by a manager with respect to subordinates is an organizational challenge in general -- at tech companies and elsewhere. If employees do not believe they are being treated fairly the result is poor morale, worse performance, and eventually seeking jobs elsewhere (which can deprive companies of needed talent). The Department of Labor has the statistics on this -- the main complaint most people have about their supervisors is unfair treatment of some kind. There is also the question of how a romantic relationship can impact a professional relationship. A manager needs to be able to reprimand their subordinates, and sometimes even fire them. Romantic relationships complicate those situations. It works the other way too -- sometimes romantic relationships need to end, and that might spill over into the workplace (see e.g. the reporting on [edited for correctness] Sergey's affair). It should be blindingly obvious that managers and their subordinates should not have romantic relationships. There are countless problems, and almost no upside for any of the people involved.