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What if your colleague was having an affair with your boss ? What if your colleague is now promoted and people allege that it was unfair ? What if they break

What if your colleague was having an affair with your boss ? What if your colleague is now promoted and people allege that it was unfair ? What if they break up and end up ruining the working of the whole team ? What if your boss was abusing you and you go to complain to HR and the HR person is having an affair with your boss ? What if your colleague consented to having an affair but felt coerced because the boss had a lot of power over them ? Would you allow such a thing to be rampant in your own company ? It’s understandable why companies would want to discourage it at the minimum. Also the issues in the article are quite serious and go beyond having an affair

cousin_it 7y ago
It seems tricky to argue that affairs between bosses and subordinates are destructive to tech companies, in a world where Bill Gates married a subordinate and Larry Page had an affair with one. I think the fight against "inappropriate" behavior at work is in large part driven by busybodies.
- thewarrior 7y ago
  I think relationships between people who report to each other are problematic. Affairs, marriages , relationships doesn’t matter. The rest don’t cause as many problems.
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    They can be more problematic because they can lead to perceptions of unfair or biased treatment at work. That doesn't mean they are problematic in most cases though. There are other ways to deal with that though short of banning or moving people, eg adding additional scrutiny of decisions by an uninvolved third party and having objective decision making criteria for career related points (promotions, bonuses, pay rises, firings etc) where possible.
    - betterunix2 7y ago
      Let's say Alice is having an affair with subordinate Bob. One day Bob has a big screw up with something Alice assigned him, and Alice needs to reprimand him for it (that is part of being a person's supervisor). There is no uninvolved third party to call in here -- that is Alice's job as Bob's boss. One way or another their romantic relationship will impact their professional relationship in this situation -- either Alice will be too gentle with Bob, and everyone will perceive favoritism, or Alice will be too harsh with Bob and risk damaging their personal relationship. Very few people would be able to respond appropriately here -- in either the supervisor or subordinate position (and both need to do so).
- nilkn 7y ago
  Your two examples are not so compelling when set aside a third example, the example of the article, in which someone's life was significantly harmed as a result of an affair at work. Do you care only about companies, or do you care about the individuals who comprise them as well?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - cousin_it 7y ago
    (deleted)
    - nilkn 7y ago
      I don't think I said anything about holding the company accountable for the irresponsible actions of two employees. Under question is whether the company should be concerned about romantic involvement within reporting relationships. This compromises the ability of the manager to provide appropriate performance feedback and also poses a considerably elevated risk of favoritism, which can cause morale issues for the whole team. It may or may not be destructive to the entire company, but it certainly is a risk that could cause a number of issues for a number of people, including both personal and career harm. I've had to navigate a scenario like this once before in my career, and it was definitely one of the more stressful things I've dealt with.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
- pjc50 7y ago
  Regardless of whether they're harmful to success, they can be very harmful to individuals who are coerced.
- betterunix2 7y ago
  Preferential treatment or the perception of preferential treatment by a manager with respect to subordinates is an organizational challenge in general -- at tech companies and elsewhere. If employees do not believe they are being treated fairly the result is poor morale, worse performance, and eventually seeking jobs elsewhere (which can deprive companies of needed talent). The Department of Labor has the statistics on this -- the main complaint most people have about their supervisors is unfair treatment of some kind. There is also the question of how a romantic relationship can impact a professional relationship. A manager needs to be able to reprimand their subordinates, and sometimes even fire them. Romantic relationships complicate those situations. It works the other way too -- sometimes romantic relationships need to end, and that might spill over into the workplace (see e.g. the reporting on [edited for correctness] Sergey's affair). It should be blindingly obvious that managers and their subordinates should not have romantic relationships. There are countless problems, and almost no upside for any of the people involved.
xamuel 7y ago
https://xkcd.com/592/ https://xkcd.com/592/
literallycancer 7y ago
>What if your colleague is now promoted and people allege that it was unfair ? Unfair? What isn't? >What if your boss was abusing you and you go to complain to HR and the HR person is having an affair with your boss ? HR exists solely to create a paper trail that helps the company should you sue them. If you expect them to do anything beyond that, you are just setting yourself up for a disappointment. You could replace affair with a friendship in all of your examples and it wouldn't change anything. Does it suck when promotions are handed out to friends rather than based on merit? Sure, but it doesn't mean we should ban socializing with colleagues.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  While that's true (and favouritism is absolutely one of the worst failings a manager can have), relationships at work have a potentially dangerous failure mode which friendships tend not to have - 'don't break up with me and I'll make sure you get promoted' is unfortunately much more likely than 'go to the game with me on Saturday and I'll make sure you get promoted'. I think it's right that there should be some protection against that.
  - nilkn 7y ago
    Moreover, people are rarely told they can't work together anymore because they're friends. But the potential fallout from a looming romantic breakup can be enough that HR may force an employee to switch departments (as happened in the article at hand). Beyond that, favoritism from romance tends to be much stronger and far less rational than favoritism from friendship. Indeed, work friendships are even often formed on the basis of a mutual recognition of competence. Romantic friendships are usually based on factors utterly unrelated to performance at work.

cousin_it 7y ago

It seems tricky to argue that affairs between bosses and subordinates are destructive to tech companies, in a world where Bill Gates married a subordinate and Larry Page had an affair with one. I think the fight against "inappropriate" behavior at work is in large part driven by busybodies.

thewarrior 7y ago
I think relationships between people who report to each other are problematic. Affairs, marriages , relationships doesn’t matter. The rest don’t cause as many problems.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  They can be more problematic because they can lead to perceptions of unfair or biased treatment at work. That doesn't mean they are problematic in most cases though. There are other ways to deal with that though short of banning or moving people, eg adding additional scrutiny of decisions by an uninvolved third party and having objective decision making criteria for career related points (promotions, bonuses, pay rises, firings etc) where possible.
  - betterunix2 7y ago
    Let's say Alice is having an affair with subordinate Bob. One day Bob has a big screw up with something Alice assigned him, and Alice needs to reprimand him for it (that is part of being a person's supervisor). There is no uninvolved third party to call in here -- that is Alice's job as Bob's boss. One way or another their romantic relationship will impact their professional relationship in this situation -- either Alice will be too gentle with Bob, and everyone will perceive favoritism, or Alice will be too harsh with Bob and risk damaging their personal relationship. Very few people would be able to respond appropriately here -- in either the supervisor or subordinate position (and both need to do so).
nilkn 7y ago
Your two examples are not so compelling when set aside a third example, the example of the article, in which someone's life was significantly harmed as a result of an affair at work. Do you care only about companies, or do you care about the individuals who comprise them as well?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cousin_it 7y ago
  (deleted)
  - nilkn 7y ago
    I don't think I said anything about holding the company accountable for the irresponsible actions of two employees. Under question is whether the company should be concerned about romantic involvement within reporting relationships. This compromises the ability of the manager to provide appropriate performance feedback and also poses a considerably elevated risk of favoritism, which can cause morale issues for the whole team. It may or may not be destructive to the entire company, but it certainly is a risk that could cause a number of issues for a number of people, including both personal and career harm. I've had to navigate a scenario like this once before in my career, and it was definitely one of the more stressful things I've dealt with.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
pjc50 7y ago
Regardless of whether they're harmful to success, they can be very harmful to individuals who are coerced.
betterunix2 7y ago
Preferential treatment or the perception of preferential treatment by a manager with respect to subordinates is an organizational challenge in general -- at tech companies and elsewhere. If employees do not believe they are being treated fairly the result is poor morale, worse performance, and eventually seeking jobs elsewhere (which can deprive companies of needed talent). The Department of Labor has the statistics on this -- the main complaint most people have about their supervisors is unfair treatment of some kind. There is also the question of how a romantic relationship can impact a professional relationship. A manager needs to be able to reprimand their subordinates, and sometimes even fire them. Romantic relationships complicate those situations. It works the other way too -- sometimes romantic relationships need to end, and that might spill over into the workplace (see e.g. the reporting on [edited for correctness] Sergey's affair). It should be blindingly obvious that managers and their subordinates should not have romantic relationships. There are countless problems, and almost no upside for any of the people involved.

xamuel 7y ago

https://xkcd.com/592/ https://xkcd.com/592/

literallycancer 7y ago

>What if your colleague is now promoted and people allege that it was unfair ? Unfair? What isn't? >What if your boss was abusing you and you go to complain to HR and the HR person is having an affair with your boss ? HR exists solely to create a paper trail that helps the company should you sue them. If you expect them to do anything beyond that, you are just setting yourself up for a disappointment. You could replace affair with a friendship in all of your examples and it wouldn't change anything. Does it suck when promotions are handed out to friends rather than based on merit? Sure, but it doesn't mean we should ban socializing with colleagues.

tomatocracy 7y ago
While that's true (and favouritism is absolutely one of the worst failings a manager can have), relationships at work have a potentially dangerous failure mode which friendships tend not to have - 'don't break up with me and I'll make sure you get promoted' is unfortunately much more likely than 'go to the game with me on Saturday and I'll make sure you get promoted'. I think it's right that there should be some protection against that.
- nilkn 7y ago
  Moreover, people are rarely told they can't work together anymore because they're friends. But the potential fallout from a looming romantic breakup can be enough that HR may force an employee to switch departments (as happened in the article at hand). Beyond that, favoritism from romance tends to be much stronger and far less rational than favoritism from friendship. Indeed, work friendships are even often formed on the basis of a mutual recognition of competence. Romantic friendships are usually based on factors utterly unrelated to performance at work.