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How far will people go to avoid learning C++? Trust me, C++ isn't that scary.

andybak 7y ago
I really hope our choices don't consist of merely "choose between Electron or C++". There's surely reasonably performant languages and frameworks with a more pleasant developer experience than either. (considering where the bottlenecks probably are I doubt that the language itself is the problem - it's wrapping a browser that is. Even Python/Qt would probably be performant enough in this context)
- de_watcher 7y ago
  Language isn't the direct performance problem indeed. It's the choice of the whole stack that depended on the language.
Fr0styMatt88 7y ago
C++ is great, but I’ve always hesitated in pushing Qt at my employer because I’ve never quite understood their licensing. It seems like it’s really expensive for actual commercial use. I keep meaning to dive into it to learn it now that my C++ is better, but what stops me there is that I don’t quite get where QtQuick + JavaScript fits in, or what parts of Qt I should be using / putting time into learning. For other languages, I don’t want to use an ‘unofficial’ binding in case it breaks.
- de_watcher 7y ago
  Every time Qt is mentioned there is a comment with a licensing question. You don't pay for commercial use as long as you don't want to make secret modification to Qt itself. Paid licenses are for a couple of obscure modules. QtQuick + JavaScript puts JavaScript into its original place that it had at the times of the old web: oneliners to bind stuff together. Also there is probably a confusion from Qt having two distinct GUI systems: QtWidgets and QtQuick.
non-entity 7y ago
Getting off topic, but what resources do you recommend for learning C++. It seems that half the resources I find are either designed for people completely new to programming (I know basic programming construct, along with OOP) or don't bother teaching stuff like the stl and all these different pointer types
- de_watcher 7y ago
  My learning experience was through first understanding how memory and everything works in the C language. To me C++ is not the place to learn programming, it's more like a tool to take some syntax/idea from another more specialized language and then develop an underlying implementation that makes the similar syntax to compile into the specific thing I imagine in C. It's important to take into account the dates when the learning materials were published. New features change the way how the same thing is done (while keeping the old way still compiling and working). Specifically about the STL there are old books from Meyers. To not get lost in time there is the "C++ Standards Support in GCC" site of the GCC compiler which enumerates all the new features that were added during the post-2011 accelerated development period. The modern C++ has seen no books so it's may be useful to just watch some talks by people who develop the language, standard library, compilers or who have experience in using it: Sutter, Lavavej, Stroustrup, Alexandrescu, Carruth‏, Hinnant, Vandevoorde, Niebler for example.
dx87 7y ago
That was my experience creating a small Qt web site archiver/spidering tool. Most of my experience is in Rust, and it was easier to learn a little bit of C++ than it was to try and figure out the binding generators required to avoid C++.

I really hope our choices don't consist of merely "choose between Electron or C++". There's surely reasonably performant languages and frameworks with a more pleasant developer experience than either. (considering where the bottlenecks probably are I doubt that the language itself is the problem - it's wrapping a browser that is. Even Python/Qt would probably be performant enough in this context)

de_watcher 7y ago
Language isn't the direct performance problem indeed. It's the choice of the whole stack that depended on the language.

Fr0styMatt88 7y ago

C++ is great, but I’ve always hesitated in pushing Qt at my employer because I’ve never quite understood their licensing. It seems like it’s really expensive for actual commercial use. I keep meaning to dive into it to learn it now that my C++ is better, but what stops me there is that I don’t quite get where QtQuick + JavaScript fits in, or what parts of Qt I should be using / putting time into learning. For other languages, I don’t want to use an ‘unofficial’ binding in case it breaks.

de_watcher 7y ago
Every time Qt is mentioned there is a comment with a licensing question. You don't pay for commercial use as long as you don't want to make secret modification to Qt itself. Paid licenses are for a couple of obscure modules. QtQuick + JavaScript puts JavaScript into its original place that it had at the times of the old web: oneliners to bind stuff together. Also there is probably a confusion from Qt having two distinct GUI systems: QtWidgets and QtQuick.

non-entity 7y ago

Getting off topic, but what resources do you recommend for learning C++. It seems that half the resources I find are either designed for people completely new to programming (I know basic programming construct, along with OOP) or don't bother teaching stuff like the stl and all these different pointer types

de_watcher 7y ago
My learning experience was through first understanding how memory and everything works in the C language. To me C++ is not the place to learn programming, it's more like a tool to take some syntax/idea from another more specialized language and then develop an underlying implementation that makes the similar syntax to compile into the specific thing I imagine in C. It's important to take into account the dates when the learning materials were published. New features change the way how the same thing is done (while keeping the old way still compiling and working). Specifically about the STL there are old books from Meyers. To not get lost in time there is the "C++ Standards Support in GCC" site of the GCC compiler which enumerates all the new features that were added during the post-2011 accelerated development period. The modern C++ has seen no books so it's may be useful to just watch some talks by people who develop the language, standard library, compilers or who have experience in using it: Sutter, Lavavej, Stroustrup, Alexandrescu, Carruth‏, Hinnant, Vandevoorde, Niebler for example.

dx87 7y ago

That was my experience creating a small Qt web site archiver/spidering tool. Most of my experience is in Rust, and it was easier to learn a little bit of C++ than it was to try and figure out the binding generators required to avoid C++.