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This is the best I can provide, at the moment: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/19/03/28/1810247/internal-documents-show-apple-is-capable-of-implementing-right

This is the best I can provide, at the moment: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/19/03/28/1810247/internal-documents-show-apple-is-capable-of-implementing-right-to-repair-legislation https://apple.slashdot.org/story/19/03/28/1810247/internal-d... Apple and its lobbyists aren't opposed to "Right to Repair" legislation, they're opposed to the currently proposed legislation because it requires them to make concessions to the process without any kind of guidance or oversight of the repairs made using the parts that they would be forced to provide. The link shows that, even prior to the Right to Repair bills proposed in most states, Apple was already developing a framework, internally, to find a way to allow third-party repair centers to repair their products while also maintaining some level of quality control. Unsurprisingly, this is exactly the announcement that was made today. Unfortunately, I can't find the link that I was actually looking for because any search for the info I'm looking for is immediately drowned out by the Vice article mentioned in the post I just linked or some blogspam that just links to it. Suffice it to say, if they were opposed to third parties repairing their products, they wouldn't have allowed the repairs previously and they wouldn't have planned something out like this for over a year and a half.

gizmo686 7y ago
I don't think that helps your case. It seems to be saying that Apple is already planning on doing voluntarily, what the legislation they are opposing would require. That is exactly the type of cynical behavior my original post was accusing Apple of. If Apple wants good right to repair laws, then this is the perfect time for them to be lobbying for good right to repair laws. As a proponent of right to repair laws, I would love to have Apple at the table when the laws are being drafted. Everything that I have seen suggests this is not what is happening. Instead of lobbying for improvements to the right to repair laws, they are lobbying against them. The fact that the laws are similar to Apple's internal plan suggests that they are being well drafted despite that (perhaps because of behind the scenes lobbying, or other stakeholders with a similar position to Apple, or the drafters just have a good understanding of the industry).
- dpkonofa 7y ago
  I guess I see it differently and I wish I could find the post I was referring to. I think that the current versions of the laws, which are different than many of the original laws that hit the first few states, are a direct result of Apple's lobbying. I don't think it's an accident that the proposed laws have sections that almost mirror the document in that link as far as what's required. If the date on that article is accurate too, then that plan from Apple actually pre-dates a lot of the right to repair legislation.
  - aspenmayer 7y ago
    Do you remember anything more about Apple’s involvements? Which states were involved in their suggested changes? I have only been successful in finding info on how they have opposed the right to repair legislatively via lobbying and PR. I haven’t found any info about laws or changes to existing/proposed laws Apple has supported in the right to repair. Here’s what I could find with Apple against right to repair: Apple Tells Lawmaker that Right to Repair iPhones Will Turn Nebraska Into a ‘Mecca’ for Hackers [1] Apple Is Lobbying Against Your Right to Repair iPhones, New York State Records Confirm [2] [1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pgxgpg/apple-tells-lawmaker-that-right-to-repair-iphones-will-turn-nebraska-into-a-mecca-for-hackers https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pgxgpg/apple-tells-lawmak... [2] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nz85y7/apple-is-lobbying-against-your-right-to-repair-iphones-new-york-state-records-confirm https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nz85y7/apple-is-lobbying-...
    - dpkonofa 7y ago
      That's the problem, though. Everything is coming from vice.com and all the search results are flooded with those same links and blogs linking to those links. It's nearly impossible to find any relevant information now outside of something published by vice.com and they, unfortunately, are not unbiased in the slightest. Motherboard, who is cited in all those articles, is the parent company of vice.com.
nulbyte 7y ago
> without any kind of guidance or oversight of the repairs made using the parts that they would be forced to provide I may have missed calls to force Apple to sell parts. Is that actually happening? In any case, aftermarket parts exist, but Apple is intentionally annoying users with persistent messaging in their product and intentionally making their devices difficult to repair. Further, Apple often replaces devices instead of repairing. Difficult repair in not incidental to their design; they're doing it on purpose. And I wouldn't expect Apple to have oversight of an unaffiliated company. It's not their business to play regulator.
- dpkonofa 7y ago
  Apple replaces devices and then takes the old devices, disassembles them, and checks each component for issues individually. They take each phone about and literally have buckets of these components that they test. Those that pass inspection get turned back into the remanufactured assembly line where older out of warranty phones go. It's not like they're just dumping these devices that they're replacing. It's just easier to replace an entire device and then have trained pros deal with testing and repairing the components than it does to have customers wait for someone at the Genius Bar, who probably couldn't do it anyways. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, most people aren't Louis Rossman. Most people don't know how to do those kinds of repairs. And yes, part of the bills that are being considered for a lot of these Right to Repair laws include regulations that would require Apple to sell OEM parts to third-party repair centers and that they would have to provide service manuals to them, free of cost. Apple is ok with doing that as long as they get to certify the people who get the manual to their repair standards. They're not intentionally making the devices difficult to repair. Most of the complaints that people have about their reparability have to do with their small size or software locks that, in reality, are meant to protect people's data from unauthorized access. Error 53 that everyone loves to point out as an evil Apple move was actually a software lock to prevent someone from putting a false Touch ID sensor on the device that was collecting biometric data but still relaying the lock command to the phone. Apple's security chain in that regard worked exactly as intended. They didn't expect to ever see a legitimate use for a fake Touch ID sensor but it happened when people decided that losing Touch ID was worth getting their screen repaired cheaper.

gizmo686 7y ago

I don't think that helps your case. It seems to be saying that Apple is already planning on doing voluntarily, what the legislation they are opposing would require. That is exactly the type of cynical behavior my original post was accusing Apple of. If Apple wants good right to repair laws, then this is the perfect time for them to be lobbying for good right to repair laws. As a proponent of right to repair laws, I would love to have Apple at the table when the laws are being drafted. Everything that I have seen suggests this is not what is happening. Instead of lobbying for improvements to the right to repair laws, they are lobbying against them. The fact that the laws are similar to Apple's internal plan suggests that they are being well drafted despite that (perhaps because of behind the scenes lobbying, or other stakeholders with a similar position to Apple, or the drafters just have a good understanding of the industry).

dpkonofa 7y ago
I guess I see it differently and I wish I could find the post I was referring to. I think that the current versions of the laws, which are different than many of the original laws that hit the first few states, are a direct result of Apple's lobbying. I don't think it's an accident that the proposed laws have sections that almost mirror the document in that link as far as what's required. If the date on that article is accurate too, then that plan from Apple actually pre-dates a lot of the right to repair legislation.
- aspenmayer 7y ago
  Do you remember anything more about Apple’s involvements? Which states were involved in their suggested changes? I have only been successful in finding info on how they have opposed the right to repair legislatively via lobbying and PR. I haven’t found any info about laws or changes to existing/proposed laws Apple has supported in the right to repair. Here’s what I could find with Apple against right to repair: Apple Tells Lawmaker that Right to Repair iPhones Will Turn Nebraska Into a ‘Mecca’ for Hackers [1] Apple Is Lobbying Against Your Right to Repair iPhones, New York State Records Confirm [2] [1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pgxgpg/apple-tells-lawmaker-that-right-to-repair-iphones-will-turn-nebraska-into-a-mecca-for-hackers https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/pgxgpg/apple-tells-lawmak... [2] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nz85y7/apple-is-lobbying-against-your-right-to-repair-iphones-new-york-state-records-confirm https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nz85y7/apple-is-lobbying-...
  - dpkonofa 7y ago
    That's the problem, though. Everything is coming from vice.com and all the search results are flooded with those same links and blogs linking to those links. It's nearly impossible to find any relevant information now outside of something published by vice.com and they, unfortunately, are not unbiased in the slightest. Motherboard, who is cited in all those articles, is the parent company of vice.com.

nulbyte 7y ago

> without any kind of guidance or oversight of the repairs made using the parts that they would be forced to provide I may have missed calls to force Apple to sell parts. Is that actually happening? In any case, aftermarket parts exist, but Apple is intentionally annoying users with persistent messaging in their product and intentionally making their devices difficult to repair. Further, Apple often replaces devices instead of repairing. Difficult repair in not incidental to their design; they're doing it on purpose. And I wouldn't expect Apple to have oversight of an unaffiliated company. It's not their business to play regulator.

dpkonofa 7y ago
Apple replaces devices and then takes the old devices, disassembles them, and checks each component for issues individually. They take each phone about and literally have buckets of these components that they test. Those that pass inspection get turned back into the remanufactured assembly line where older out of warranty phones go. It's not like they're just dumping these devices that they're replacing. It's just easier to replace an entire device and then have trained pros deal with testing and repairing the components than it does to have customers wait for someone at the Genius Bar, who probably couldn't do it anyways. As I've said elsewhere in this thread, most people aren't Louis Rossman. Most people don't know how to do those kinds of repairs. And yes, part of the bills that are being considered for a lot of these Right to Repair laws include regulations that would require Apple to sell OEM parts to third-party repair centers and that they would have to provide service manuals to them, free of cost. Apple is ok with doing that as long as they get to certify the people who get the manual to their repair standards. They're not intentionally making the devices difficult to repair. Most of the complaints that people have about their reparability have to do with their small size or software locks that, in reality, are meant to protect people's data from unauthorized access. Error 53 that everyone loves to point out as an evil Apple move was actually a software lock to prevent someone from putting a false Touch ID sensor on the device that was collecting biometric data but still relaying the lock command to the phone. Apple's security chain in that regard worked exactly as intended. They didn't expect to ever see a legitimate use for a fake Touch ID sensor but it happened when people decided that losing Touch ID was worth getting their screen repaired cheaper.