4 ms·

Ask HN: Review my side project

22 points by lachyg 16y ago

Hey HN, I've recently read the '4-Hour Body' and got pretty inspired. Started the diet and muscle program. Have seen great results so far. Then saw a supplementation chapter, and decided to see about creating the actual stack. I then contacted a company who was making it, and worked out a dropshipping arrangement and set up http://paggstack.com/ (the name of the proposed stack). My questions for you guys are: - What do you think of the site? Do you think it looks professional? Would you make any changes? - Do you like the concept of it? - Any specific tips on marketing it? I know supplements and stacks are usually looked upon as spammy, but I want to do the best job at removing that image. I'm mainly targeting SEO and Twitter at the moment. Btw, I'm doing this to fund my main startup.

lachyg 16y ago
Clickable: http://www.paggstack.com/ http://www.paggstack.com/
paraschopra 16y ago
Lachy, I think the site is beautifully designed and you got yourself a great domain name. I am not sure number of visitors from search are you normally getting but I see you are already #1 for the term PAGG Stack, which is great. You can perhaps try to rank for other related terms for 4HWW by starting a blog or knowledgebase? Good luck with this project! If you get enough traffic, you will certainly make great revenues from this site. EDIT: clarified
terryjsmith 16y ago
My first thought on entering the site was "What is PAGG?" I'm not sure if you're just targeting people who have read the book specifically, but even renaming your "What does the PAGG stack consist of?" to "What is the PAGG stack?"/"What is PAGG?" or adding a page and a link (I'm envisioning a "What is PAGG Stack?" link up by the cart) that describe the basics would be super helpful.
- lachyg 16y ago
  Sure thing. I'll add that. The market really is though people that already understand it (that's the way they'd find it). Will definitely still add it just to capture other customers.
  - terryjsmith 16y ago
    Awesome. If you do some long tail SEO and set up a blog, capturing any of the current interest in the "Four Hour Body" craze going on right now could be a boon; you could potentially capitalize on people who haven't even read the book by marketing it as a "key component" if that's true (again, having not read the book).
    - lachyg 16y ago
      Great points. Didn't really think about that. Thanks.
    - notahacker 16y ago
      Needless to say the blog should also make frequent references to Tim Ferris' book and relevant anecdotes and tips in it (and of course an Amazon affiliate link for those that haven't bought it yet). I'm slightly surprised there's no mention of "As recommended by Tim Ferris' / Four Hour Body" in big letters above the fold in your current home page design. You ought to be able to pick up links from health-related blogs/forums as well as search traffic from people specifically looking for "PAGG stack", and immediate context is invaluable to keep the bounce rate down. Whilst we're at it, other generic marketing suggestions: - draw more attention to the savings for 2 and 3 month supplies - offer an auto-rebill option (assuming your drop shipper and supplier is happy with it). Chances are some of your target market are people that quite happily get their Acai Berry supplements sent to them on a regular basis.
  - wtn 16y ago
    You need it badly. People who know what it is will pass the link to people who don't know what it is. Without better info, you growth will suffer badly.
Ryan_IRL 16y ago
The design is great and I think you've done a good job at avoiding that spammy look (envisioning stock images of people with perfect teeth looking right at the camera).
- lachyg 16y ago
  Thanks. I hear that's great for conversions, but I just can't force myself to do that.
  - notahacker 16y ago
    I love to see an A/B test of the spammy look vs polished minimalism
    - lachyg 16y ago
      I'm afraid I'm not even going to try the spammy look. I can't do that. Supplements is a stretch for me.
brm 16y ago
Any chance you'll go into detail on what it was like to work out the dropshipping arrangement?
- lachyg 16y ago
  'Course. I don't think it'll be the great story you're after though. Initially I contacted the private label nutra companies, but the MOQ was like $5k, and I didn't want to risk that. So I found a company that was going to be doing it, talked to them and became friends. Then we just negotiated a price per sale, and how we would do shipping (I'd just email them a daily xls). Very simple. Contact, negotiate, execute.
  - paraschopra 16y ago
    Great, I know it may not be possible for you to reveal here, but if you are OK with it may I ask what sort of margins such these dropshipping arrangements offer?
    - lachyg 16y ago
      Well... I went for around 30% but I researched and decided that that was not nearly good enough, and went for closer to 60% due to their high profit margins. This will allow me to market it more affectively.
      - paraschopra 16y ago
        Correct me if I am wrong: do you pocket $55.2 (60% of $92) for every sale you make? That is way higher than I imagined!
nkohari 16y ago
I think you should emphasize The Four Hour Body link more, because it's confusing what a PAGG stack is. That being said, be careful to put a disclaimer that the site isn't affiliated with the author/publisher.
- lachyg 16y ago
  Will add that now. Thanks for the reminder.
revorad 16y ago
Have you contacted Tim Ferriss himself? One blog post from him will probably get you more business than any amount of SEO or tweeting? Even if you can't get that, you could probably get some good advice since he's been in this business for a long time.
- lachyg 16y ago
  Will do.
Encosia 16y ago
The design looks great; not spammy at all. At a glance, I was confused by the table near the bottom. The large heading says "What does the PAGG stack consist of?" and the following paragraph is in a low contrast/small font, so I jumped almost directly from the heading to the table. That gave me the impression that the table was describing what you were selling (i.e. 7 bottles for $92 instead of $111), which isn't the intended effect. An H2 more in line with the rest of the section or a prominent table caption might be a good idea. Also keep in mind that the largest group of people buying supplements (at least in the US) have aging eyeballs. The size and low-contrast of your P text is going to be challenging for many of them.
- lachyg 16y ago
  Will execute these suggestions when I wake up tomorrow morning.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
zitterbewegung 16y ago
I really like your live chat(got to talk with you directly :-) ). Also, I mentioned with you that you should try reddit.com to advertise but don't be too corporate. Looks GREAT!
- lachyg 16y ago
  Will definitely take you up on your offer to help write it! I lurk reddit but would probably fail at writing!
dholowiski 16y ago
While I don't like the industry or the product, the site looks very good, and very reputable. If I was into that kind of stuff I wouldnt hesitate to order from that site. Out of curiosity, since you're selling a supplement, do you have to carry some kind of liability insurance? I would contact Timothy ferris, he might give you some free publicity, since this is essentially what he did with brainquicken.
- lachyg 16y ago
  I'm only dropshipping, so I imagine it would be like buying Panadol at Walmart, you would be suing Panadol, not Walmart. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
  - sorbus 16y ago
    I'm pretty sure that if Walmart sold something which was dangerous they would end up being sued along with the manufacturer; not saying that it is dangerous, just that you might have some liability. I am, however, not a lawyer, and the best advice I can give is to find a lawyer and talk to them about it. Don't put it off, because even if there are no potential legal issues you are probably much, much better off knowing that for sure instead of guessing.
randomtask 16y ago
Do you really need the word "hack" in the slogan? Seems like it would confuse the majority of people who may be unaware of its meaning in that context? "Short-cut to the Ultimate Body" seems sufficient.
- lachyg 16y ago
  Good idea, fixed.
kilian 16y ago
Looks great, very clear but I have a few nitpicks: - On first visiting the site, "no items in Cart" just kind of floats there on the right. I have no interest in having a cart at that moment, so just hide that text until there is something to display. - Don't start chatting with me immediatelly, it's kind of disconcerting (Though it was nice talking to you. Stick to two minutes waiting time or wait for them to engage you ;) - It seems very much geared to technology minded people, with detailed comparison on costs, # of pills etc. Not everyone has read 4HB, so give us the cliffs note so we know what these pills are for. - I think the two main buttons switching to each others color on hover is kind of ugly, and I'd use a third color on hover for both. In any case, good idea, good website. I hope it's a success for you!
- lachyg 16y ago
  Fixed the cart. Will look into the others in the morning :-)
JamesDB 16y ago
Really smart site design. Looks really professional. Perhaps remove any doubt about spamminess (a word?!) by putting a telephone number for people to ring. Might increase conversions slightly.
- lachyg 16y ago
  Unfortunately, being in Australia, opposite timezones, and prices, wouldn't really work.
  - paraschopra 16y ago
    Let it go to voicemail. People won't actually call; only the presence of a phone should increase conversions.
olalonde 16y ago
I would make 2 most important words "losing weight" more obvious.
aamar 16y ago
Site looks really good. A few minor observations: - Details page: Policosanol is listed in the table as 23mb instead of 23mg. - Blue box around product photo is distracting. - Main body font feels a little too small generally. - Possibly too many parentheses on Detail and Contact page. - A few punctuation errors, e.g. "The possibilities are endless and the potential is unlimited." should have a comma before "and" whereas "Buy now, and" lower down should not. - Front page: I found the "swallow 8 more pills per day" to be confusing. It would be clearer if you listed the # of pills per day that you'd have to swallow using the separately-purchased products and total those up in the table above that pitch. - Odd that the 110% guarantee is referred to on the Contact page and nowhere else that I can see. - The chat plugin floats onto an awkward space on the iOS Safari. Again, terrific job. Good luck with this and the main startup.
sz 16y ago
Just some immediate first impressions. - The logo looks small and isolated from the rest of the page. - The text in the navigation tabs looks strange, maybe it should be centered? - The boxes with the slight shading are missing vertical borders, which looks unfinished. - The circles with the prices are not ordered numerically, which was confusing at first glance. Also the text labels in the image are too small. - The font size for the description paragraphs is too small; looks like fine print. - The colors for the Buy/Learn buttons at the top are badly chosen; when I hover over one, it looks like they're both active or inactive since they're the same color. There should be four different colors or they should be identical. - Not sure why "Required" was abbreviated to "Req'd" when adjacent cells have much more text.
katpoteri 16y ago
The design looks awesome - perfect for your target demographic - well done. I noticed that you have taken the brand images from 4hourfatloss.myshopify.com - are they just placeholder images for now? Are you planning on creating your own label brand? For your phone number - get a Skype online number with voicemail that gives you a toll free United States number - or a number in any country you like. It will cost you a small monthly fee for this service but will provide great benefits to the perception & customer service of your product. I would suggest some targetted Facebook ads too to drive traffic.

22 points by lachyg 16y ago

lachyg 16y ago

Clickable: http://www.paggstack.com/ http://www.paggstack.com/

paraschopra 16y ago

Lachy, I think the site is beautifully designed and you got yourself a great domain name. I am not sure number of visitors from search are you normally getting but I see you are already #1 for the term PAGG Stack, which is great. You can perhaps try to rank for other related terms for 4HWW by starting a blog or knowledgebase? Good luck with this project! If you get enough traffic, you will certainly make great revenues from this site. EDIT: clarified

terryjsmith 16y ago

My first thought on entering the site was "What is PAGG?" I'm not sure if you're just targeting people who have read the book specifically, but even renaming your "What does the PAGG stack consist of?" to "What is the PAGG stack?"/"What is PAGG?" or adding a page and a link (I'm envisioning a "What is PAGG Stack?" link up by the cart) that describe the basics would be super helpful.

lachyg 16y ago
Sure thing. I'll add that. The market really is though people that already understand it (that's the way they'd find it). Will definitely still add it just to capture other customers.
- terryjsmith 16y ago
  Awesome. If you do some long tail SEO and set up a blog, capturing any of the current interest in the "Four Hour Body" craze going on right now could be a boon; you could potentially capitalize on people who haven't even read the book by marketing it as a "key component" if that's true (again, having not read the book).
  - lachyg 16y ago
    Great points. Didn't really think about that. Thanks.
  - notahacker 16y ago
    Needless to say the blog should also make frequent references to Tim Ferris' book and relevant anecdotes and tips in it (and of course an Amazon affiliate link for those that haven't bought it yet). I'm slightly surprised there's no mention of "As recommended by Tim Ferris' / Four Hour Body" in big letters above the fold in your current home page design. You ought to be able to pick up links from health-related blogs/forums as well as search traffic from people specifically looking for "PAGG stack", and immediate context is invaluable to keep the bounce rate down. Whilst we're at it, other generic marketing suggestions: - draw more attention to the savings for 2 and 3 month supplies - offer an auto-rebill option (assuming your drop shipper and supplier is happy with it). Chances are some of your target market are people that quite happily get their Acai Berry supplements sent to them on a regular basis.
- wtn 16y ago
  You need it badly. People who know what it is will pass the link to people who don't know what it is. Without better info, you growth will suffer badly.

Ryan_IRL 16y ago

The design is great and I think you've done a good job at avoiding that spammy look (envisioning stock images of people with perfect teeth looking right at the camera).

lachyg 16y ago
Thanks. I hear that's great for conversions, but I just can't force myself to do that.
- notahacker 16y ago
  I love to see an A/B test of the spammy look vs polished minimalism
  - lachyg 16y ago
    I'm afraid I'm not even going to try the spammy look. I can't do that. Supplements is a stretch for me.

brm 16y ago

Any chance you'll go into detail on what it was like to work out the dropshipping arrangement?

lachyg 16y ago
'Course. I don't think it'll be the great story you're after though. Initially I contacted the private label nutra companies, but the MOQ was like $5k, and I didn't want to risk that. So I found a company that was going to be doing it, talked to them and became friends. Then we just negotiated a price per sale, and how we would do shipping (I'd just email them a daily xls). Very simple. Contact, negotiate, execute.
- paraschopra 16y ago
  Great, I know it may not be possible for you to reveal here, but if you are OK with it may I ask what sort of margins such these dropshipping arrangements offer?
  - lachyg 16y ago
    Well... I went for around 30% but I researched and decided that that was not nearly good enough, and went for closer to 60% due to their high profit margins. This will allow me to market it more affectively.
    - paraschopra 16y ago
      Correct me if I am wrong: do you pocket $55.2 (60% of $92) for every sale you make? That is way higher than I imagined!

nkohari 16y ago

I think you should emphasize The Four Hour Body link more, because it's confusing what a PAGG stack is. That being said, be careful to put a disclaimer that the site isn't affiliated with the author/publisher.

lachyg 16y ago
Will add that now. Thanks for the reminder.

revorad 16y ago

Have you contacted Tim Ferriss himself? One blog post from him will probably get you more business than any amount of SEO or tweeting? Even if you can't get that, you could probably get some good advice since he's been in this business for a long time.

lachyg 16y ago
Will do.

Encosia 16y ago

The design looks great; not spammy at all. At a glance, I was confused by the table near the bottom. The large heading says "What does the PAGG stack consist of?" and the following paragraph is in a low contrast/small font, so I jumped almost directly from the heading to the table. That gave me the impression that the table was describing what you were selling (i.e. 7 bottles for $92 instead of $111), which isn't the intended effect. An H2 more in line with the rest of the section or a prominent table caption might be a good idea. Also keep in mind that the largest group of people buying supplements (at least in the US) have aging eyeballs. The size and low-contrast of your P text is going to be challenging for many of them.

lachyg 16y ago
Will execute these suggestions when I wake up tomorrow morning.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

zitterbewegung 16y ago

I really like your live chat(got to talk with you directly :-) ). Also, I mentioned with you that you should try reddit.com to advertise but don't be too corporate. Looks GREAT!

lachyg 16y ago
Will definitely take you up on your offer to help write it! I lurk reddit but would probably fail at writing!

dholowiski 16y ago

While I don't like the industry or the product, the site looks very good, and very reputable. If I was into that kind of stuff I wouldnt hesitate to order from that site. Out of curiosity, since you're selling a supplement, do you have to carry some kind of liability insurance? I would contact Timothy ferris, he might give you some free publicity, since this is essentially what he did with brainquicken.

lachyg 16y ago
I'm only dropshipping, so I imagine it would be like buying Panadol at Walmart, you would be suing Panadol, not Walmart. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
- sorbus 16y ago
  I'm pretty sure that if Walmart sold something which was dangerous they would end up being sued along with the manufacturer; not saying that it is dangerous, just that you might have some liability. I am, however, not a lawyer, and the best advice I can give is to find a lawyer and talk to them about it. Don't put it off, because even if there are no potential legal issues you are probably much, much better off knowing that for sure instead of guessing.

randomtask 16y ago

Do you really need the word "hack" in the slogan? Seems like it would confuse the majority of people who may be unaware of its meaning in that context? "Short-cut to the Ultimate Body" seems sufficient.

lachyg 16y ago
Good idea, fixed.

kilian 16y ago

Looks great, very clear but I have a few nitpicks: - On first visiting the site, "no items in Cart" just kind of floats there on the right. I have no interest in having a cart at that moment, so just hide that text until there is something to display. - Don't start chatting with me immediatelly, it's kind of disconcerting (Though it was nice talking to you. Stick to two minutes waiting time or wait for them to engage you ;) - It seems very much geared to technology minded people, with detailed comparison on costs, # of pills etc. Not everyone has read 4HB, so give us the cliffs note so we know what these pills are for. - I think the two main buttons switching to each others color on hover is kind of ugly, and I'd use a third color on hover for both. In any case, good idea, good website. I hope it's a success for you!

lachyg 16y ago
Fixed the cart. Will look into the others in the morning :-)

JamesDB 16y ago

Really smart site design. Looks really professional. Perhaps remove any doubt about spamminess (a word?!) by putting a telephone number for people to ring. Might increase conversions slightly.

lachyg 16y ago
Unfortunately, being in Australia, opposite timezones, and prices, wouldn't really work.
- paraschopra 16y ago
  Let it go to voicemail. People won't actually call; only the presence of a phone should increase conversions.

olalonde 16y ago

I would make 2 most important words "losing weight" more obvious.

aamar 16y ago

Site looks really good. A few minor observations: - Details page: Policosanol is listed in the table as 23mb instead of 23mg. - Blue box around product photo is distracting. - Main body font feels a little too small generally. - Possibly too many parentheses on Detail and Contact page. - A few punctuation errors, e.g. "The possibilities are endless and the potential is unlimited." should have a comma before "and" whereas "Buy now, and" lower down should not. - Front page: I found the "swallow 8 more pills per day" to be confusing. It would be clearer if you listed the # of pills per day that you'd have to swallow using the separately-purchased products and total those up in the table above that pitch. - Odd that the 110% guarantee is referred to on the Contact page and nowhere else that I can see. - The chat plugin floats onto an awkward space on the iOS Safari. Again, terrific job. Good luck with this and the main startup.

sz 16y ago

Just some immediate first impressions. - The logo looks small and isolated from the rest of the page. - The text in the navigation tabs looks strange, maybe it should be centered? - The boxes with the slight shading are missing vertical borders, which looks unfinished. - The circles with the prices are not ordered numerically, which was confusing at first glance. Also the text labels in the image are too small. - The font size for the description paragraphs is too small; looks like fine print. - The colors for the Buy/Learn buttons at the top are badly chosen; when I hover over one, it looks like they're both active or inactive since they're the same color. There should be four different colors or they should be identical. - Not sure why "Required" was abbreviated to "Req'd" when adjacent cells have much more text.

katpoteri 16y ago

The design looks awesome - perfect for your target demographic - well done. I noticed that you have taken the brand images from 4hourfatloss.myshopify.com - are they just placeholder images for now? Are you planning on creating your own label brand? For your phone number - get a Skype online number with voicemail that gives you a toll free United States number - or a number in any country you like. It will cost you a small monthly fee for this service but will provide great benefits to the perception & customer service of your product. I would suggest some targetted Facebook ads too to drive traffic.