3 ms·

> Legalizing it will drastically mitigate the ability for minors to get a hold of any I can't tell if you are joking or not (sorry). But I simply don't believe

by umvi 7y ago

> Legalizing it will drastically mitigate the ability for minors to get a hold of any I can't tell if you are joking or not (sorry). But I simply don't believe this. Why would legalizing it make it harder for minors to get ahold of it?

dragonwriter 7y ago
> Why would legalizing it make it harder for minors to get ahold of it? Legalizing increases the marginal legal risk (and thus expected cost) of selling to minors (still illegal) vs. selling to everyone else. The same is true of non-sale person-to-person distribution.
- umvi 7y ago
  Ok, so you are saying given X minor marijuana user, it would be harder for X to obtain marijuana post legalization vs. pre legalization. That I agree with because X's dealer is willing to break the law to sell to minors while convenience store employees are less likely to. However, the point is moot because legalizing marijuana increases it's overall availability, image, and appeal and thus you'll have more minors using it overall post legalization. To illustrate my point, it would be like saying "legalizing marijuana makes it 50% harder for minors to buy it!" but leaving off the "(but also legalization would increase the number of minor users by 10000+%)" part. All it would take is for Juul to make THC pods and suddenly you have a HUGE adolescent user base essentially using marijuana overnight that didn't exist before legalization.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > However, the point is moot because legalizing marijuana increases it's overall availability, image, and appeal Availability, sure; legalization is a product of image and appeal already reaching the level of legal recreational drugs, and there's no reason it would raise it beyond them. Might even reduce the forbidden fruit appeal to minors (but maybe not, because it still be forbidden for them.) > All it would take is for Juul to make THC pods Something that is unlikely, at least following the product design and marketing approach that had that effect for nicotine pods (for them or others) if the lawsuits against them for illegal marketing to children with their nicotine pods succeed.
    - umvi 7y ago
      > legalization is a product of image and appeal already reaching the level of legal recreational drugs, and there's no reason it would raise it beyond them Sure there's a reason. The reason is that legalization opens the way for marketing. Marijuana companies will want to continuously increase its appeal and image via advertising, just like the alcohol industry aggressively does. We've already started seeing medical marijuana adverts online that do just this in places where it is legal.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        > Marijuana companies will want to continuously increase its appeal and image Yes and like other legal recreational drugs it can and certainly will be taxed, with taxes used for addressing problem use including propaganda designed specifically to reduce the drugs image and appeal.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    > To illustrate my point, it would be like saying "legalizing marijuana makes it 50% harder for minors to buy it!" but leaving off the "(but also legalization would increase the number of minor users by 10000+%)" part. Why would it increase that number?
  - KingMachiavelli 7y ago
    They have Cannabis concentrate sold in single use 'pods' that attatch to any vape battery with a 510 connector. I don't think legalization had as large of an effect on the perception and availability of cannabis as you say, part of the reason Colorado was one of the first to legalize is likely due to our already 'positive' image of it. Colorado and other states that legalized all already had medical programs that were commonly abused; either by little restrictions on access (Red cards) or allowing more growing & cultivation than the actual medical population could theoretically consume. Being from Colorado, I have to say, anecdotally, that usage is up in young adults 18+ is up since it's never been more available and 'tolerated' at Colorado Universities. Dorms are pretty strict if they can smell it but concentrates are much eaiser to conceal and cheaper than edibles & flower. I can comment personally on its effect on minors (<18) but some reports did show it declined in that specific population following legalization (I don'r recall if they reported on the 18-21 population).
Broken_Hippo 7y ago
When one is underage, it is easier to get illegal drugs than legal ones. The legality makes different sorts of barriers and different sorts of penalties for selling to a minor. I'm not sure it mattered if you were (are) selling pot to a 18 year old rather than a 30 year old - you were still selling pot. You would get in trouble for giving an 18 year old alcohol, though, but not the 30 year old. And a bunch of things like this.
- umvi 7y ago
  On the other hand if you were a minor that wanted to use illegal drugs, you had to have the right friends/contacts to know where make illegal purchases. Legality makes it so that now everyone knows where to buy it (at any store) and now minors just experiment a few times until they find a lax vendor just like they do with Juuls. After all, minors are not penalized for merely attempting to buy something. And, like I put in my other comment, it doesn't really matter if the barrier for minors buying drugs is higher if the act of legalization increases the number of minors attempting to buy the drug by an astronomical factor.
- yoz-y 7y ago
  > When one is underage, it is easier to get illegal drugs than legal ones. I just don't buy this. When I was a kid it was trivial to ask somebody to buy us alcohol and cigarettes. Almost everybody I knew drank underage and at least a third of the kids smoke. Compared to this getting weed was always 'an event' and I did not get to try it until much later.
fleekonpoint 7y ago
This Washington Post article says that teen drug use is down in Colorado after they passed marijuana legalization: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/following-marijuana-legalization-teen-drug-use-is-down-in-colorado/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/follo.... I think it's due to the reasons that others have mentioned - that minors can't buy it illegally from stores and the drug dealers they used to buy from are now irrelevant.
- umvi 7y ago
  Minors can't buy Juul legally from stores either, yet Juul usage is skyrocketing among minors. I think it has less to do with the legality alone and more to do with fashion/image/etc (which is enabled by legalization). Marijuana might be down now, but I could see THC Juul pods or MJ pills or some other form of legal marijuana becoming a fad among minors in the future and usage skyrocketing. Legalization is the enabler in this case.
mrlala 7y ago
Because when it's legal that destroys a lot of the market for illegal sellers.. so there are less illegal sellers around.
MiroF 7y ago
Anecdotally, my entire life weed has been much easier to get a hold of as a minor than alcohol

by umvi 7y ago

dragonwriter 7y ago

> Why would legalizing it make it harder for minors to get ahold of it? Legalizing increases the marginal legal risk (and thus expected cost) of selling to minors (still illegal) vs. selling to everyone else. The same is true of non-sale person-to-person distribution.

umvi 7y ago
Ok, so you are saying given X minor marijuana user, it would be harder for X to obtain marijuana post legalization vs. pre legalization. That I agree with because X's dealer is willing to break the law to sell to minors while convenience store employees are less likely to. However, the point is moot because legalizing marijuana increases it's overall availability, image, and appeal and thus you'll have more minors using it overall post legalization. To illustrate my point, it would be like saying "legalizing marijuana makes it 50% harder for minors to buy it!" but leaving off the "(but also legalization would increase the number of minor users by 10000+%)" part. All it would take is for Juul to make THC pods and suddenly you have a HUGE adolescent user base essentially using marijuana overnight that didn't exist before legalization.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > However, the point is moot because legalizing marijuana increases it's overall availability, image, and appeal Availability, sure; legalization is a product of image and appeal already reaching the level of legal recreational drugs, and there's no reason it would raise it beyond them. Might even reduce the forbidden fruit appeal to minors (but maybe not, because it still be forbidden for them.) > All it would take is for Juul to make THC pods Something that is unlikely, at least following the product design and marketing approach that had that effect for nicotine pods (for them or others) if the lawsuits against them for illegal marketing to children with their nicotine pods succeed.
  - umvi 7y ago
    > legalization is a product of image and appeal already reaching the level of legal recreational drugs, and there's no reason it would raise it beyond them Sure there's a reason. The reason is that legalization opens the way for marketing. Marijuana companies will want to continuously increase its appeal and image via advertising, just like the alcohol industry aggressively does. We've already started seeing medical marijuana adverts online that do just this in places where it is legal.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > Marijuana companies will want to continuously increase its appeal and image Yes and like other legal recreational drugs it can and certainly will be taxed, with taxes used for addressing problem use including propaganda designed specifically to reduce the drugs image and appeal.
- luckylion 7y ago
  > To illustrate my point, it would be like saying "legalizing marijuana makes it 50% harder for minors to buy it!" but leaving off the "(but also legalization would increase the number of minor users by 10000+%)" part. Why would it increase that number?
- KingMachiavelli 7y ago
  They have Cannabis concentrate sold in single use 'pods' that attatch to any vape battery with a 510 connector. I don't think legalization had as large of an effect on the perception and availability of cannabis as you say, part of the reason Colorado was one of the first to legalize is likely due to our already 'positive' image of it. Colorado and other states that legalized all already had medical programs that were commonly abused; either by little restrictions on access (Red cards) or allowing more growing & cultivation than the actual medical population could theoretically consume. Being from Colorado, I have to say, anecdotally, that usage is up in young adults 18+ is up since it's never been more available and 'tolerated' at Colorado Universities. Dorms are pretty strict if they can smell it but concentrates are much eaiser to conceal and cheaper than edibles & flower. I can comment personally on its effect on minors (<18) but some reports did show it declined in that specific population following legalization (I don'r recall if they reported on the 18-21 population).

Broken_Hippo 7y ago

When one is underage, it is easier to get illegal drugs than legal ones. The legality makes different sorts of barriers and different sorts of penalties for selling to a minor. I'm not sure it mattered if you were (are) selling pot to a 18 year old rather than a 30 year old - you were still selling pot. You would get in trouble for giving an 18 year old alcohol, though, but not the 30 year old. And a bunch of things like this.

umvi 7y ago
On the other hand if you were a minor that wanted to use illegal drugs, you had to have the right friends/contacts to know where make illegal purchases. Legality makes it so that now everyone knows where to buy it (at any store) and now minors just experiment a few times until they find a lax vendor just like they do with Juuls. After all, minors are not penalized for merely attempting to buy something. And, like I put in my other comment, it doesn't really matter if the barrier for minors buying drugs is higher if the act of legalization increases the number of minors attempting to buy the drug by an astronomical factor.
yoz-y 7y ago
> When one is underage, it is easier to get illegal drugs than legal ones. I just don't buy this. When I was a kid it was trivial to ask somebody to buy us alcohol and cigarettes. Almost everybody I knew drank underage and at least a third of the kids smoke. Compared to this getting weed was always 'an event' and I did not get to try it until much later.

fleekonpoint 7y ago

This Washington Post article says that teen drug use is down in Colorado after they passed marijuana legalization: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/following-marijuana-legalization-teen-drug-use-is-down-in-colorado/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/12/11/follo.... I think it's due to the reasons that others have mentioned - that minors can't buy it illegally from stores and the drug dealers they used to buy from are now irrelevant.

umvi 7y ago
Minors can't buy Juul legally from stores either, yet Juul usage is skyrocketing among minors. I think it has less to do with the legality alone and more to do with fashion/image/etc (which is enabled by legalization). Marijuana might be down now, but I could see THC Juul pods or MJ pills or some other form of legal marijuana becoming a fad among minors in the future and usage skyrocketing. Legalization is the enabler in this case.

mrlala 7y ago

Because when it's legal that destroys a lot of the market for illegal sellers.. so there are less illegal sellers around.

MiroF 7y ago

Anecdotally, my entire life weed has been much easier to get a hold of as a minor than alcohol