5 ms·

I have a similar BMW. In my opinion, the sane way to approach cars is to accept that it's an excellent mechanical machine with shit software. Even if they were

by Maro 7y ago

I have a similar BMW. In my opinion, the sane way to approach cars is to accept that it's an excellent mechanical machine with shit software. Even if they were to do an awesome job, which they won't, over the years the software/screen will get outdated. The solution is to minimize the software use, and enjoy the car as a mechanical machine, eg. buy the torque-y 30d not the 20d. Eg. I know the map is shit, so I just don't think about it, I have a $2 thing and I mount my phone and that's it. My phone will always have a nicer screen, better software, better 4G, it will always be configured better for me (I get a new phone every year). On the car, I just use the radio, the bluetooth for Spotify (sometimes it doesn't work), and that's it. Things like "CarPlay" or whatever, voice commands, it's better not to think about it and just enjoy the ride. The only tech upgrade I'd take on a new car is the surround camera because I'm a shitty parker, but that's it.

mikl 7y ago
To each their own, of course, but I think a car with CarPlay will age much better. The way CarPlay works is that your phone controls most of it, so you’ll be able to take advantage of the yearly iOS updates without getting a new car. Basically a free yearly update for the infotainment system, at least for a good long while. There’ll probably come a time where Apple phases out support for really old CarPlay devices, but to my knowledge it hasn’t happened yet, and Apple has strong incentives to keep it that way (since they want to give you incentive to upgrade your iPhone, even if you have an old car).
Phillipharryt 7y ago
I'm in agreement but I've not seen this sentiment shared much. A car is a seperate piece of technology to my phone and I've never felt the need to mix the features of them. Call me a luddite but I use the car to drive and that's it. I don't need any software integrations for the way I use it.
- singingboyo 7y ago
  I sort of agree, but also can't. A car should be good at driving, that's its job. It does something very different from a phone. However, we rarely use cars just to drive. We use them to get places. Especially in cities, that process can be boring. Phones are very good at offering music, news, and other things that we generally use to fill boredom. I want that option available when I've been in mostly stopped traffic for the last 15+ minutes. Can it be done without AA/CarPlay? Sure. But it's much more convenient to have the full integration.
  - Phillipharryt 7y ago
    Fair enough, I was just giving my driving experience. I don't like to use the car for anything but driving. The most interactive it gets is me putting on a CD.
- bob1029 7y ago
  I am also in agreement. I want the car to be as mechanical as possible. The ideal phone-car integration for me is a 3.5mm aux jack that lives in the glove box somewhere. I am the kind of driver that will not look at their phone in the car, even at a stop light. Everyone who knows me knows that if I am driving, they should not expect any sort of response from me until I have parked safely. It's sad this has become an exceptional and even controversial stance. Even the electronic safety nannies that are exclusively part of the car get in my way sometimes. I will intentionally disable stabilitrak and traction control on my car every time I start it up, unless the weather is bad. I also feel safer and more in control if I can feel the road through the steering wheel and don't have things like fly-by-wire keeping me isolated from the physical reality unfolding around me. I've heard lots of complaints regarding things like lane keep assist being too aggressive and making steering non-intuitive or annoying. Good luck disabling that on a 2019 model year vehicle. Everyone wants to be so goddamn comfortable and disengaged while they are driving their 4000lb death machines around. I really don't get it anymore. What are our priorities?
  - Phillipharryt 7y ago
    I would argue turning off traction control feels safer up until the moment it doesn't and then it causes a crash. Traction control is really impressive tech even on older cars and I wouldn't want to turn it off. By "fly-by-wire" do you mean power steering? Driving without that just sucks. I like low-tech interiors but I don't mind newer tech on cars like blind spot detectors and auto-dip headlights. If only you could pick and choose.
    - Maro 7y ago
      My brother turned off traction control on his RX-8, then crashed it into the side of the onramp. Friends don't let friends turn off traction control, unless they're professional drivers.
  - jondumbau 7y ago
    i used to agree, but i've found a 3.5mm aux cord can fall out quite easily over bumps as the phone gets old. otherwise completely agree.
bradlys 7y ago
Unfortunately - I think what you're seeing here is that people here (especially in this article, on HN, and in general) are not focused on the "driving experience" but more of the "commuting experience". People are not using these vehicles to /drive/ but to /commute/ or just get to a destination. They're no more engaged in driving than they are in flying when on an airplane. I think the audience for these things are people stuck in bad commutes or long boring trips where they are unengaged from driving.
- yardie 7y ago
  This right here. If I wanted a driving experience I would have bought a manual transmission Porsche 911 with the shit radio no serious driver bothers to turn on. But we live in modern times and people drive for work/school/errands is mind-numbing enough. Constantly down/up shifting while the engine drones on near idle would be torture.
- mikl 7y ago
  Very true. My daily commute is 90% autobahn, and not the exciting unlimited speed autobahn, but just regular four lane highways with several speed traps on the way. So get on the road, engage cruise control and keep your lane, not much else. Having something to listen to actually improves my concentration, prevents my brain zoning out and becoming really inattentive from boredom ;)
switch007 7y ago
> enjoy the car as a mechanical machine, eg. buy the torque-y 30d not the 20d. Surely if you really wish to enjoy a BMW you buy one with a NA petrol engine ;-)
- Maro 7y ago
  It's something I think about a lot, but it doesn't seem like a good trade-off. It's more expensive, and for real-world use-cases a torquey diesel seems a more fun fit: in city traffic, I'm going mostly 0-70 km/h, so torque at low revs is good. And when I'm going longer distances on the freeway I'm not accelerating anyway, I like the low rumbling noise of my diesel and fuel economy is good. It seems to me an M-car mostly makes sense if you're going to the track, which I never do. CMIIW
  - switch007 7y ago
    It was just a tongue-in-cheek comment, hinting at the popularity of the S65 found in the older M3 (also the non-M M54 engine was pretty sweet) I definitely get the appeal of a diesel! I even enjoy the 8 (?) speed modern 320d/330d. But red-lining a decent petrol engine can't compare.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
lutorm 7y ago
"over the years the software/screen will get outdated." This is what they WANT. They want you to buy a new one! It's planned obsolescence only without getting dinged on reliability ratings....
- bradlys 7y ago
  From what I understand, all the electronics going wrong actually dings their reliability ratings considerably. Even minor things like little bugs and software hiccups are considered bad for reliability ratings.
jen20 7y ago
A counterpoint: my personal 2009 BMW with the "professional" navigation has aged exceptionally well having updated the maps only a couple of times. I rent cars very frequently on business trips and have yet to find any (including, annoyingly, newer BMWs) which compare in overall utility and usability unless they have CarPlay. Having said that, it's an absolute given that I will not be buying a new car without CarPlay or the future equivalent thereof.
- Maro 7y ago
  I had an E61 BMW 5, I think the nav/system/display was good. Now I drive the 4 series and the nav/system is not much different in terms of functionality, it's just a bit more pleasant on the eyes and higher resolution. Overall, it's the same story: I don't rely on it, and when I do use it it's an amusing reminder of in-car software, but it doesn't bother me. I've sat in the newest generation cars in BMW dealerships, and it seems like it's going to be the same story [ignoring things like CarPlay].

by Maro 7y ago

mikl 7y ago

To each their own, of course, but I think a car with CarPlay will age much better. The way CarPlay works is that your phone controls most of it, so you’ll be able to take advantage of the yearly iOS updates without getting a new car. Basically a free yearly update for the infotainment system, at least for a good long while. There’ll probably come a time where Apple phases out support for really old CarPlay devices, but to my knowledge it hasn’t happened yet, and Apple has strong incentives to keep it that way (since they want to give you incentive to upgrade your iPhone, even if you have an old car).

Phillipharryt 7y ago

I'm in agreement but I've not seen this sentiment shared much. A car is a seperate piece of technology to my phone and I've never felt the need to mix the features of them. Call me a luddite but I use the car to drive and that's it. I don't need any software integrations for the way I use it.

singingboyo 7y ago
I sort of agree, but also can't. A car should be good at driving, that's its job. It does something very different from a phone. However, we rarely use cars just to drive. We use them to get places. Especially in cities, that process can be boring. Phones are very good at offering music, news, and other things that we generally use to fill boredom. I want that option available when I've been in mostly stopped traffic for the last 15+ minutes. Can it be done without AA/CarPlay? Sure. But it's much more convenient to have the full integration.
- Phillipharryt 7y ago
  Fair enough, I was just giving my driving experience. I don't like to use the car for anything but driving. The most interactive it gets is me putting on a CD.
bob1029 7y ago
I am also in agreement. I want the car to be as mechanical as possible. The ideal phone-car integration for me is a 3.5mm aux jack that lives in the glove box somewhere. I am the kind of driver that will not look at their phone in the car, even at a stop light. Everyone who knows me knows that if I am driving, they should not expect any sort of response from me until I have parked safely. It's sad this has become an exceptional and even controversial stance. Even the electronic safety nannies that are exclusively part of the car get in my way sometimes. I will intentionally disable stabilitrak and traction control on my car every time I start it up, unless the weather is bad. I also feel safer and more in control if I can feel the road through the steering wheel and don't have things like fly-by-wire keeping me isolated from the physical reality unfolding around me. I've heard lots of complaints regarding things like lane keep assist being too aggressive and making steering non-intuitive or annoying. Good luck disabling that on a 2019 model year vehicle. Everyone wants to be so goddamn comfortable and disengaged while they are driving their 4000lb death machines around. I really don't get it anymore. What are our priorities?
- Phillipharryt 7y ago
  I would argue turning off traction control feels safer up until the moment it doesn't and then it causes a crash. Traction control is really impressive tech even on older cars and I wouldn't want to turn it off. By "fly-by-wire" do you mean power steering? Driving without that just sucks. I like low-tech interiors but I don't mind newer tech on cars like blind spot detectors and auto-dip headlights. If only you could pick and choose.
  - Maro 7y ago
    My brother turned off traction control on his RX-8, then crashed it into the side of the onramp. Friends don't let friends turn off traction control, unless they're professional drivers.
- jondumbau 7y ago
  i used to agree, but i've found a 3.5mm aux cord can fall out quite easily over bumps as the phone gets old. otherwise completely agree.

bradlys 7y ago

Unfortunately - I think what you're seeing here is that people here (especially in this article, on HN, and in general) are not focused on the "driving experience" but more of the "commuting experience". People are not using these vehicles to /drive/ but to /commute/ or just get to a destination. They're no more engaged in driving than they are in flying when on an airplane. I think the audience for these things are people stuck in bad commutes or long boring trips where they are unengaged from driving.

yardie 7y ago
This right here. If I wanted a driving experience I would have bought a manual transmission Porsche 911 with the shit radio no serious driver bothers to turn on. But we live in modern times and people drive for work/school/errands is mind-numbing enough. Constantly down/up shifting while the engine drones on near idle would be torture.
mikl 7y ago
Very true. My daily commute is 90% autobahn, and not the exciting unlimited speed autobahn, but just regular four lane highways with several speed traps on the way. So get on the road, engage cruise control and keep your lane, not much else. Having something to listen to actually improves my concentration, prevents my brain zoning out and becoming really inattentive from boredom ;)

switch007 7y ago

> enjoy the car as a mechanical machine, eg. buy the torque-y 30d not the 20d. Surely if you really wish to enjoy a BMW you buy one with a NA petrol engine ;-)

Maro 7y ago
It's something I think about a lot, but it doesn't seem like a good trade-off. It's more expensive, and for real-world use-cases a torquey diesel seems a more fun fit: in city traffic, I'm going mostly 0-70 km/h, so torque at low revs is good. And when I'm going longer distances on the freeway I'm not accelerating anyway, I like the low rumbling noise of my diesel and fuel economy is good. It seems to me an M-car mostly makes sense if you're going to the track, which I never do. CMIIW
- switch007 7y ago
  It was just a tongue-in-cheek comment, hinting at the popularity of the S65 found in the older M3 (also the non-M M54 engine was pretty sweet) I definitely get the appeal of a diesel! I even enjoy the 8 (?) speed modern 320d/330d. But red-lining a decent petrol engine can't compare.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

lutorm 7y ago

"over the years the software/screen will get outdated." This is what they WANT. They want you to buy a new one! It's planned obsolescence only without getting dinged on reliability ratings....

bradlys 7y ago
From what I understand, all the electronics going wrong actually dings their reliability ratings considerably. Even minor things like little bugs and software hiccups are considered bad for reliability ratings.

jen20 7y ago

A counterpoint: my personal 2009 BMW with the "professional" navigation has aged exceptionally well having updated the maps only a couple of times. I rent cars very frequently on business trips and have yet to find any (including, annoyingly, newer BMWs) which compare in overall utility and usability unless they have CarPlay. Having said that, it's an absolute given that I will not be buying a new car without CarPlay or the future equivalent thereof.

Maro 7y ago
I had an E61 BMW 5, I think the nav/system/display was good. Now I drive the 4 series and the nav/system is not much different in terms of functionality, it's just a bit more pleasant on the eyes and higher resolution. Overall, it's the same story: I don't rely on it, and when I do use it it's an amusing reminder of in-car software, but it doesn't bother me. I've sat in the newest generation cars in BMW dealerships, and it seems like it's going to be the same story [ignoring things like CarPlay].