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1. a 2018 paper arguing that food addiction is real is hardly conclusive consensus. That paper is literally evidence that the topic is still under debate. 2. e

1. a 2018 paper arguing that food addiction is real is hardly conclusive consensus. That paper is literally evidence that the topic is still under debate. 2. everybody in this thread is conflating nicotine and tobacco, but the difference is moot. the point is health risks and addiction. Whatever is in your vape is an unquantified health risk, and is definitely addictive. We won't know if vape chemicals and usage patterns cause more or less damage than cigarettes until people have been huffing them at scale for 20-30 years at least. Even if they do cause less damage than cigarettes, how much less is ok? half? a tenth? a one-hundreth?

dr_dshiv 7y ago
The benefit of a 2018 paper is that it assembles the evidence. But, to satisfy, here is a much older paper about caffeine addiction [2]. Because, yes. Caffeine. It's addictive. And that's not really a problem, is it? You ask how much less damage is ok. Half would be great! But it is likely to be more than that. The sun causes more cancer than Juul, that is worth keeping in mind. It's a free country. [2] Olekalns, N., & Bardsley, P. (1996). Rational addiction to caffeine: An analysis of coffee consumption. Journal of Political Economy, 104(5), 1100-1104.
- kennywinker 7y ago
  Ok... so caffeine is addictive therefore potato chips are? Does not follow. Addictive alone is not necessarily a problem, but it does mean there is the potential for companies to exploit that addiction to make money while causing great harm along the way. > It's a free country. A "free country" and regulated capitalism are not mutually exclusive. It's a free country and you need a license to drive a car. It's a free country and you can't sell someone baking soda disguised as flour. Regulations, done right, have the potential to make us all safer, and protect us from exploitation by capitalist interests. For example, stealing is very profitable... but we made it illegal in order to discourage corporations from forming around theft as a business model. All that said, to be perfectly honest, my actual biggest beef with juul is the stupid disposable plastic pods. Everything else is... well, capitalism exploiting addiction for profit... at the cost of people's health. Which as you point out, is not exclusive to juul.
  - dr_dshiv 7y ago
    We are on on the same page. I only view the health effects of Juul as a larger net positive than potato chips (but not coffee!). I wish juul was sold in India -- millions of lives would be saved. Smoking kills. I think Juul is a gateway to not consuming nicotine. But I recognize that takes more time and evidence to bear out.

dr_dshiv 7y ago

The benefit of a 2018 paper is that it assembles the evidence. But, to satisfy, here is a much older paper about caffeine addiction [2]. Because, yes. Caffeine. It's addictive. And that's not really a problem, is it? You ask how much less damage is ok. Half would be great! But it is likely to be more than that. The sun causes more cancer than Juul, that is worth keeping in mind. It's a free country. [2] Olekalns, N., & Bardsley, P. (1996). Rational addiction to caffeine: An analysis of coffee consumption. Journal of Political Economy, 104(5), 1100-1104.

kennywinker 7y ago
Ok... so caffeine is addictive therefore potato chips are? Does not follow. Addictive alone is not necessarily a problem, but it does mean there is the potential for companies to exploit that addiction to make money while causing great harm along the way. > It's a free country. A "free country" and regulated capitalism are not mutually exclusive. It's a free country and you need a license to drive a car. It's a free country and you can't sell someone baking soda disguised as flour. Regulations, done right, have the potential to make us all safer, and protect us from exploitation by capitalist interests. For example, stealing is very profitable... but we made it illegal in order to discourage corporations from forming around theft as a business model. All that said, to be perfectly honest, my actual biggest beef with juul is the stupid disposable plastic pods. Everything else is... well, capitalism exploiting addiction for profit... at the cost of people's health. Which as you point out, is not exclusive to juul.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  We are on on the same page. I only view the health effects of Juul as a larger net positive than potato chips (but not coffee!). I wish juul was sold in India -- millions of lives would be saved. Smoking kills. I think Juul is a gateway to not consuming nicotine. But I recognize that takes more time and evidence to bear out.