6 ms·

> "assignment of all inventions", related and unrelated to the company, done on or off company time and even done using personal equipment This is such a big g

> "assignment of all inventions", related and unrelated to the company, done on or off company time and even done using personal equipment This is such a big grab, I don't understand why they limit to inventions. Shouldn't they also demand assignment of all creative work so that if you write a novel on your own time and equipment they can collect all the royalties?

StaticRedux 7y ago
"inventions" is not used in the same context as you would use it when talking about an inventor, like Tesla or Edison. It's legalize. It depends on the language in the contract, but it usually includes everything under the sun, including creative works like books. Sometimes there is a clarification for anything that can be related to your work, my current employer does that, but I've seen others without that. Which basically says they own you and everything you do or even think while employed by them.
- brlewis 7y ago
  Sorry, I should have specified: This is in the United States. Here "inventions" is specifically patentable stuff. See https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents#heading-2 https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-inform...
  - StaticRedux 7y ago
    I'm in the US too. Inventions is usually defined in the contract itself and does not necessarily apply to patentable things. This is just my personal experience, so take it for what it's worth, though I do have a fair amount of experience with contracts and non-competes.
    - brlewis 7y ago
      That seems weird to me, that a contract would redefine a term that already has a legal meaning, but there are weird things in law.
- davismwfl 7y ago
  This has been my experience too. When I had my consulting practice we were very careful on the contracts and always had an attorney review any proposed changes to the MSA or SOW that had any material feel to it. It was not uncommon for startups and enterprises alike to send us things to add to our MSA or ask us to use their contract "for simplicity and speed" but when we would review their suggestions around assignment of IP/inventions it was rare to find one that wasn't overreaching. Most were pretty cool about changing it and I think didn't realize how far reaching their attorneys had made it, and that wasn't their intent. Others I think were fully aware and felt that was their right if we did any work for their company, so we never worked with those teams.
buckminster 7y ago
Some employers do lay claim to all IP. I guess restricting it to inventions is an attempt to seem reasonable. Not successfully though.
- davismwfl 7y ago
  This is what I think has happened, some employers do ask for all IP still. But others use the term inventions to make it seem like they aren't as over reaching. But generally I have seen that they do define "invention" in the document to basically include all IP still. This is one that drives me insane, and I just won't touch a company that is doing this as it is unreasonable and so evil to me. But sadly a lot of startup legal firms put this in their standard IP documents for employees to sign and if you don't catch it you can be screwed.
Silhouette 7y ago
Shouldn't they also demand assignment of all creative work so that if you write a novel on your own time and equipment they can collect all the royalties? Some places do. I once worked for a UK business that was taken over by a US one. The difference in mindset between the original management team and the new one was nowhere more evident than in the one-sided IP terms they tried to introduce into everyone's contract and the laughable defence of this made by the corporate VP who was effectively taking over the top job. IIRC it was something about how they nurture their staff and deliver pots of gold to the end of their personal rainbows by unicorn ferry and all they ask in return is everything you ever create and your mortal soul, though the memory is fuzzy and it's possible that I added a couple of those details later.

StaticRedux 7y ago

"inventions" is not used in the same context as you would use it when talking about an inventor, like Tesla or Edison. It's legalize. It depends on the language in the contract, but it usually includes everything under the sun, including creative works like books. Sometimes there is a clarification for anything that can be related to your work, my current employer does that, but I've seen others without that. Which basically says they own you and everything you do or even think while employed by them.

brlewis 7y ago
Sorry, I should have specified: This is in the United States. Here "inventions" is specifically patentable stuff. See https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents#heading-2 https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-inform...
- StaticRedux 7y ago
  I'm in the US too. Inventions is usually defined in the contract itself and does not necessarily apply to patentable things. This is just my personal experience, so take it for what it's worth, though I do have a fair amount of experience with contracts and non-competes.
  - brlewis 7y ago
    That seems weird to me, that a contract would redefine a term that already has a legal meaning, but there are weird things in law.
davismwfl 7y ago
This has been my experience too. When I had my consulting practice we were very careful on the contracts and always had an attorney review any proposed changes to the MSA or SOW that had any material feel to it. It was not uncommon for startups and enterprises alike to send us things to add to our MSA or ask us to use their contract "for simplicity and speed" but when we would review their suggestions around assignment of IP/inventions it was rare to find one that wasn't overreaching. Most were pretty cool about changing it and I think didn't realize how far reaching their attorneys had made it, and that wasn't their intent. Others I think were fully aware and felt that was their right if we did any work for their company, so we never worked with those teams.

buckminster 7y ago

Some employers do lay claim to all IP. I guess restricting it to inventions is an attempt to seem reasonable. Not successfully though.

davismwfl 7y ago
This is what I think has happened, some employers do ask for all IP still. But others use the term inventions to make it seem like they aren't as over reaching. But generally I have seen that they do define "invention" in the document to basically include all IP still. This is one that drives me insane, and I just won't touch a company that is doing this as it is unreasonable and so evil to me. But sadly a lot of startup legal firms put this in their standard IP documents for employees to sign and if you don't catch it you can be screwed.

Silhouette 7y ago

Shouldn't they also demand assignment of all creative work so that if you write a novel on your own time and equipment they can collect all the royalties? Some places do. I once worked for a UK business that was taken over by a US one. The difference in mindset between the original management team and the new one was nowhere more evident than in the one-sided IP terms they tried to introduce into everyone's contract and the laughable defence of this made by the corporate VP who was effectively taking over the top job. IIRC it was something about how they nurture their staff and deliver pots of gold to the end of their personal rainbows by unicorn ferry and all they ask in return is everything you ever create and your mortal soul, though the memory is fuzzy and it's possible that I added a couple of those details later.