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I understand why this spark conversations about the current Firefox market share situation. But I also believe that Firefox's dominant past plays against when

I understand why this spark conversations about the current Firefox market share situation. But I also believe that Firefox's dominant past plays against when it comes to analyzing the product right now. Firefox is amazing, it works wonderfully, it continues to improve, respects privacy, adopts Mozilla's ethical values. Yes, not many people use it, but criticizing this point so aggressively I think it is also influenced by the culture aiming at hypergrouth, dominance, monopoly, "Move fast and break things". I am very happy with what Firefox does for me right now. Imagine a situation in which Firefox does not exist and today the product comes to light, it would be a great celebration, and the market share would be zero. Thanks Firefox, I love you very much, although there are few of us who use you and maybe that doesn't change.

cbsmith 7y ago
> Yes, not many people use it It's a good 300 million people. Might be small in the grand scheme of things, but it's that's bigger than all but a handful of countries.
- fabrice_d 7y ago
  Major issue is that the trend is going down: see https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity
- est31 7y ago
  To be precise, it was 289 million on July 1st 2018, and 248 million on July 9th 2019. It was 239 million on August 24. Yes, the numbers are huge. Any product that has this many users would be considered a major success, but the trend is still troubling.
  - stebann 7y ago
    Anybody has some idea why that trend? Firefox is wonderful. I don't understand why more people aren't adopting this amazing browser.
    - MegaButts 7y ago
      Why would the typical user make the effort to download Firefox when they're already happy with Chrome? The typical user isn't on HN with strong opinions on privacy, has little notion of what constitutes a tech monopoly, covets convenience, and has already configured their one browser extension but doesn't remember how (and it turns out that same browser extension isn't in Firefox). For most people, they can already see the internet in Chrome, or Safari, or maybe even Internet Explorer. Why would they switch when they don't even know what they're switching to or why? Meanwhile Chrome has the full force of Google behind it, and Chrome is actually one of their important projects that they aren't going to abandon any time soon. It's really Chrome vs. the world, and Chrome is winning. https://www.w3counter.com/trends https://www.w3counter.com/trends
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        >Why would the typical user make the effort to download Firefox when they're already happy with Chrome? Why would more users make the effort in 2018 than in 2019? This doesn't explain the trend though it's probably an accurate assessment.
        wolco 7y ago
        Part of the answer is in how they collect those numbers.
    - rapind 7y ago
      I prefer firefox, but I'm on a mac and it runs pretty hot. I believe they're improving this though. Once performance is solved it'll be my default browser.
      - pcwalton 7y ago
        Some fixes for this have landed in Nightly. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522
- smitty1e 7y ago
  Need to figure out a subscription model to ensure that a non-Google browser continues to flourish. Also, K. Lars Lohn is the man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfe5M_zG2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfe5M_zG2s
cronix 7y ago
I've seen thousands of Chrome ads in my life. On TV, on FB, on other ads on other websites, etc. I really don't think I've ever seen a FF ad. At least, I really can't recall seeing one. From what I've seen, the public has just not really heard of them. It's mostly just us geeks. It's hard to get market share when your audience doesn't even know you exist. And then you have Android, which comes with Chrome and has a much larger worldwide audience than iOS. I don't know how this is different than windows shipping with IE in the 90s, except Alphabet is allowed to continue while MS was not. Android has about 76% of the world market compared to iOS's ~22%. iOS has been in a slow decline most of this year as well, while Andoid is going up by as much. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide
- userSumo 7y ago
  Interesting, i have never seen a browser ad in my life... is that in US or something?
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    Netherlands too, and I saw Google ads in Germany as well but not sure for which product.
    - tauchunfall 7y ago
      There were Google Chrome ads in Germany, e.g. here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tinto/5336283196/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/tinto/5336283196/
  - cronix 7y ago
    Just searched real quick on YouTube. It wasn't only in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak8UKuQvM98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak8UKuQvM98 Here's one from 10 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAoKG5RW8Lk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAoKG5RW8Lk
- jonny_eh 7y ago
  Here it is plastered on the San Francisco Bay Area's commuter train (Caltrain): https://twitter.com/gocaltrain/status/697135271280685056 https://twitter.com/gocaltrain/status/697135271280685056
lucb1e 7y ago
> Firefox's dominant past plays against I'm sorry, what? It was either the underdog of MSIE or of Chrome, it never was dominant the way the actual dominant browser at the time was dominant. The peak was 30%, and when Chrome took over from MSIE, it had 21% with MSIE and Chrome at 30% each.
- jrochkind1 7y ago
  What's it got now?
  - fabrice_d 7y ago
    About 9.5% on desktop, and 4.5% globally.
- electronstudio 7y ago
  You have a short memory. Netscape Navigator 3 had a >75% market share. Mozilla, which became Firefox, was a total rewrite, but that rewrite was done by the same people and was released as Netscape 6 - 9.
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    A majority of early adopters (of computers and internet connections in general) running some early version of this doesn't seem very relevant. I really don't think this ancient history (browser history does not go back much further than this) is working against Firefox today.

cbsmith 7y ago

> Yes, not many people use it It's a good 300 million people. Might be small in the grand scheme of things, but it's that's bigger than all but a handful of countries.

fabrice_d 7y ago
Major issue is that the trend is going down: see https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/user-activity
est31 7y ago
To be precise, it was 289 million on July 1st 2018, and 248 million on July 9th 2019. It was 239 million on August 24. Yes, the numbers are huge. Any product that has this many users would be considered a major success, but the trend is still troubling.
- stebann 7y ago
  Anybody has some idea why that trend? Firefox is wonderful. I don't understand why more people aren't adopting this amazing browser.
  - MegaButts 7y ago
    Why would the typical user make the effort to download Firefox when they're already happy with Chrome? The typical user isn't on HN with strong opinions on privacy, has little notion of what constitutes a tech monopoly, covets convenience, and has already configured their one browser extension but doesn't remember how (and it turns out that same browser extension isn't in Firefox). For most people, they can already see the internet in Chrome, or Safari, or maybe even Internet Explorer. Why would they switch when they don't even know what they're switching to or why? Meanwhile Chrome has the full force of Google behind it, and Chrome is actually one of their important projects that they aren't going to abandon any time soon. It's really Chrome vs. the world, and Chrome is winning. https://www.w3counter.com/trends https://www.w3counter.com/trends
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      >Why would the typical user make the effort to download Firefox when they're already happy with Chrome? Why would more users make the effort in 2018 than in 2019? This doesn't explain the trend though it's probably an accurate assessment.
      - wolco 7y ago
        Part of the answer is in how they collect those numbers.
  - rapind 7y ago
    I prefer firefox, but I'm on a mac and it runs pretty hot. I believe they're improving this though. Once performance is solved it'll be my default browser.
    - pcwalton 7y ago
      Some fixes for this have landed in Nightly. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1429522
smitty1e 7y ago
Need to figure out a subscription model to ensure that a non-Google browser continues to flourish. Also, K. Lars Lohn is the man. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfe5M_zG2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSfe5M_zG2s

cronix 7y ago

I've seen thousands of Chrome ads in my life. On TV, on FB, on other ads on other websites, etc. I really don't think I've ever seen a FF ad. At least, I really can't recall seeing one. From what I've seen, the public has just not really heard of them. It's mostly just us geeks. It's hard to get market share when your audience doesn't even know you exist. And then you have Android, which comes with Chrome and has a much larger worldwide audience than iOS. I don't know how this is different than windows shipping with IE in the 90s, except Alphabet is allowed to continue while MS was not. Android has about 76% of the world market compared to iOS's ~22%. iOS has been in a slow decline most of this year as well, while Andoid is going up by as much. https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/mobile/worldwide

userSumo 7y ago
Interesting, i have never seen a browser ad in my life... is that in US or something?
- lucb1e 7y ago
  Netherlands too, and I saw Google ads in Germany as well but not sure for which product.
  - tauchunfall 7y ago
    There were Google Chrome ads in Germany, e.g. here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tinto/5336283196/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/tinto/5336283196/
- cronix 7y ago
  Just searched real quick on YouTube. It wasn't only in the US. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak8UKuQvM98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak8UKuQvM98 Here's one from 10 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAoKG5RW8Lk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAoKG5RW8Lk
jonny_eh 7y ago
Here it is plastered on the San Francisco Bay Area's commuter train (Caltrain): https://twitter.com/gocaltrain/status/697135271280685056 https://twitter.com/gocaltrain/status/697135271280685056

lucb1e 7y ago

> Firefox's dominant past plays against I'm sorry, what? It was either the underdog of MSIE or of Chrome, it never was dominant the way the actual dominant browser at the time was dominant. The peak was 30%, and when Chrome took over from MSIE, it had 21% with MSIE and Chrome at 30% each.

jrochkind1 7y ago
What's it got now?
- fabrice_d 7y ago
  About 9.5% on desktop, and 4.5% globally.
electronstudio 7y ago
You have a short memory. Netscape Navigator 3 had a >75% market share. Mozilla, which became Firefox, was a total rewrite, but that rewrite was done by the same people and was released as Netscape 6 - 9.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  A majority of early adopters (of computers and internet connections in general) running some early version of this doesn't seem very relevant. I really don't think this ancient history (browser history does not go back much further than this) is working against Firefox today.