31 ms·
Feels like the big blocker is that it seems to only be useful if you insist on a language that is Perl-like but also modern, but most Perl programmers probably
by devit 7y ago
Feels like the big blocker is that it seems to only be useful if you insist on a language that is Perl-like but also modern, but most Perl programmers probably moved to other languages already and don't care about whether their language is Perl-like, and the remaining ones are probably mostly maintaining Perl 5 codebases that they don't want to rewrite.
Ignoring the Perl angle, it's a language with a small ecosystem that doesn't seem to provide any groundbreaking advantage compared to existing languages, so no reason to adopt it.
In general, to become popular a new language needs to provide one of those:
1. A new groundbreaking and useful paradigm that cannot be added to existing popular language ecosystems without a total compatibility break (e.g. Rust)
2. Compatibility with an existing ecosystem and significant improvements (e.g. Kotlin)
3. Being the best among languages required by a platform or program (e.g. Swift, also JavaScript when introduced)
4. Have one of the best ecosystems for a specific niche (e.g. Ruby when Rails got popular)
- mkozlows 7y agoThe thing is, there are a LOT of new things in Perl 6. Its approach to regexes (with grammars) feels genuinely revolutionary, and it's got a lot of other neat things about it. I don't think it'd be instantly super-popular if it were a standalone, non-Perl-affiliated language, but I think it'd at least be talked about like Elixir or F# or Elm.
- cies 7y agoI agree here. Language design needs some artistic freedom, and P6 is clearly exploring new areas in that regard. I always felt Perl <6 was the papa of Ruby: optimizing for (a) programmer's happiness. Perl showed the way in so many ways, combined with the object model of SmallTalk we got Ruby. Maybe P6 also has a some new ideas in that find their use in future languages. But we will only know after P6 gets used and loved and exposed to real world scenarios, what those "most valuable/copyable innovations" are...
- goatinaboat 7y agoIts approach to regexes (with grammars) feels genuinely revolutionary Is that really a thing that couldn’t just be added to PCRE and be available in any language with bindings? F# has the advantage of easy interoperability with the vast .NET ecosystem.
- antihero 7y agoIs there like, some sort of website showcasing new features and providing idiomatic examples that would make someone go...holy shit?
- wwweston 7y ago> if you insist on a language that is Perl-like but also modern Here's your perennial reminder that the word "modern" is a thought smell. > it's a language with a small ecosystem that doesn't seem to provide any groundbreaking advantage compared to existing languages I'd almost prefer this conception went uncorrected, because Perl6 is not just Ruby or Python in different clothes, and it's not just Perl5 with nicer aesthetics, and I don't mind enjoying niches or competitive advantages.
- andrewflnr 7y ago> "modern" is a thought smell Sometimes it's a thought smell, but sometimes it's shorthand for "has learned the lessons of recent history", which is indeed valuable.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- wwweston 7y ago"Code smell" isn't an automatic "something is definitely wrong," it's an indication that maybe something is wrong. By analogy, "modern" might indeed sometimes mean "has learned the lessons of recent history." One can even sometimes test this by asking people what they mean by "modern." My experience is that they usually don't know, or have a conception uncomfortably close to "it was released more recently" or "it's more like what everybody does right now," which are both certainly worth observing... but stopping there is where the thinking becomes distinctly less so.
- shawnz 7y agoThe trouble is when it's shorthand for "forgotten the lessons of ancient history"
- singingfish 7y agoor worse, forgotten the lessons of recent history
- 7y ago