6 ms·
Large employers attempt to do this quite often, even in states that specifically forbid it in state statue. Some states have laws that prevent this behavior bu
by davismwfl 7y ago
Large employers attempt to do this quite often, even in states that specifically forbid it in state statue. Some states have laws that prevent this behavior but it doesn't stop employers from trying to bully those without knowledge.
I personally would be highly suspicious of any startup that was trying this while simultaneously offering or paying you a below market wage. If a company wants your attention they should pay to hold it, not threaten your job because you take a side job to make more money or have a hobby.
Another similar policy to this is the "assignment of all inventions", related and unrelated to the company, done on or off company time and even done using personal equipment. Again, some states prevent this, and even in states that don't have specific laws preventing it, generally I have seen the legal system is remiss to allow employers these wide unfettered control over peoples private lives.
Also, this is a reason you should write down every thought, idea or actual stuff you have worked on as excluded works before signing any document about inventions, non-compete etc. While I 100% disagree with the concept of these policies, there are ways around them almost all the time if you plan ahead.
This is also always something up for negotiation when you are being hired. The companies first response is almost always well this is the only way we hire anyone, and your response to that is what matters. It is also your first look at what the company really thinks of employees, if they care they'll figure a way to work with you, assuming you aren't being unreasonable yourself. If they are there to use you as a cog then they'll say no to all reasonable requests and that should be your warning sign to walk. I had people tell me you can't get more vacation back in the day when 2 weeks was the norm in the U.S. for all new employees. And here I'd be hired and have 4 weeks the first year and people were pissed cause they didn't negotiate it. Those are policies written by people, not laws of nature, it is all on the table you just have to work a little and be brave enough to push a little.
*edit -- fixed a spelling mistake and a repetitive word
- brlewis 7y ago> "assignment of all inventions", related and unrelated to the company, done on or off company time and even done using personal equipment This is such a big grab, I don't understand why they limit to inventions. Shouldn't they also demand assignment of all creative work so that if you write a novel on your own time and equipment they can collect all the royalties?
- StaticRedux 7y ago"inventions" is not used in the same context as you would use it when talking about an inventor, like Tesla or Edison. It's legalize. It depends on the language in the contract, but it usually includes everything under the sun, including creative works like books. Sometimes there is a clarification for anything that can be related to your work, my current employer does that, but I've seen others without that. Which basically says they own you and everything you do or even think while employed by them.
- brlewis 7y agoSorry, I should have specified: This is in the United States. Here "inventions" is specifically patentable stuff. See https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents#heading-2 https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-inform...
- StaticRedux 7y agoI'm in the US too. Inventions is usually defined in the contract itself and does not necessarily apply to patentable things. This is just my personal experience, so take it for what it's worth, though I do have a fair amount of experience with contracts and non-competes.
- brlewis 7y agoThat seems weird to me, that a contract would redefine a term that already has a legal meaning, but there are weird things in law.
- davismwfl 7y agoThis has been my experience too. When I had my consulting practice we were very careful on the contracts and always had an attorney review any proposed changes to the MSA or SOW that had any material feel to it. It was not uncommon for startups and enterprises alike to send us things to add to our MSA or ask us to use their contract "for simplicity and speed" but when we would review their suggestions around assignment of IP/inventions it was rare to find one that wasn't overreaching. Most were pretty cool about changing it and I think didn't realize how far reaching their attorneys had made it, and that wasn't their intent. Others I think were fully aware and felt that was their right if we did any work for their company, so we never worked with those teams.
- davidjnelson 7y agoAnd get multiple offers for leverage ideally ;-)