7 ms·
What do you propose they do? Shut down?
by socalnate1 7y ago
What do you propose they do? Shut down?
- DanBC 7y agoNot market to children.
- kennywinker 7y agoI mean, I would love it if people behaved in a moral way - if they are in a business that brings a net negative value to the world, then yes! Shut it down! But I'm not here expecting that to happen... Instead I think we should just know that what they are saying and why they are saying it is 100% a cyncial play to make more money at the cost of the environment and people's health, and regulate them as such.
- scarface74 7y agoPlaying Devils Advocate: Why are we so quick to demonize the tobacco industry but we don’t demonize companies that sell alcohol, artificial sweeteners, junk food, red meat, etc. They are all unhealthy. I’m sure everyone has some bad habits that will lead to a premature death.
- cryptonector 7y agoOr even marijuana. Legalizing marijuana is popular now, and so is banning nicotine. The cognitive dissonance in that is something to marvel at.
- tehjoker 7y agoNot really. You can want something to be legal, not have the state brutalize people, and still not want for profit companies synthesizing desire via marketing and product design and creating ubiquitous availability.
- scarface74 7y agoYou can want both. But it can’t happen. I personally would rather not have a world where marijuana use is widespread, but I would rather have that if it means taking away one more tool from the justice system to punish people (unequally) for a victimless crime.
- dr_dshiv 7y agoWhat world do you live in? Potato chip companies cause way way more social harm than Juul. It is waaay easier to quit Juul than cigarettes. It doesn't cause cancer. What is actually the issue, besides the puritanism?
- kennywinker 7y ago1. potato chips aren't addictive. 2. juul is bringing millions of new people to tobacco products, not just providing a way for smokers to ease off cigarettes.
- leetcrew 7y ago> potato chips aren't addictive this claim is not uncontroversial. they don't cause physical dependence in the way we think of with drugs (ie, no physical withdrawal syndrome), but eating junk food can be an exceptionally difficult habit to break. humans can become addicted to almost anything that gives a moderate to strong immediate reward.
- kennywinker 7y agoClearly there are differences between potato chips (hard to stop eating) and alcohol/tobacco/coffee (physical withdrawal symptoms). So how about this: I think the more addictive something is, the more carefully we should regulate the capitalist systems that surround it. Not actually that complicated a position.
- leetcrew 7y ago
- ppseafield 7y agoMarijuana is a plant that is very easy to grow, has few negative long-term side effects, has several medicinal properties, and its ban and subsequent enforcement existed to disenfranchise anti-war folks and minorities. Additionally its ban helped gangs in South and Mezoamerica make a lot of money by selling it in the US. Cigarettes have few positive side effects and heavily contributes to the #1 preventable disease in the US: cardiovascular disease. AFAIK there are no outright bans on nicotine or tobacco products. However, the places you may consume them in public are shrinking (and often the same restrictions are placed on marijuana). Also the kind of products that are attractive to kids are being targeted (again, AFAIK companies are not allowed to market marijuana - or alcohol - to children). It seems to me that tobacco used to be much more prevalent but is being re-categorized from "acceptable everywhere" into the same group as alcohol. And marijuana is being re-categorized from Schedule 1 to the same category as alcohol.
- kennywinker 7y agoUnhealthy != addictive. Tobacco and alcohol are addictive, but none of your other examples are. I'd love to have a separate convo about regulating alcohol in a different way than we currently do - more in some ways, less in others.
- viklove 7y agoSugar is addictive...
- kennywinker 7y agoIs it? I really don't think that everything that gives you a dopamine hit should be considered addictive. Even if we do accept that "sugar is addictive", the physical symptoms of withdrawal from alcohol / tobacco are much more extreme than the physical symptoms of sugar withdrawal... they are at best two classes of "addiction", NOT the same thing.
- DanBC 7y agoThis is a really weird list. We do demonize alcohol makers and sellers -- Scotland has introduced Minimum Unit Pricing; there's a push to get that introduced in England (unlikely with a current PM who doesn't believe in regulation for anything) and alcohol is taxed and has controls on who can buy it and who can sell it. Artificial sweeteners are not harmful. Red meat is no where near as harmful as either tobacco or alcohol. > I’m sure everyone has some bad habits that will lead to a premature death. Tobacco kills huge numbers of people in a variety of ways. The number one public health issue at the moment is getting people to smoke less and then to stop smoking.
- pwinnski 7y agoYes, in fact, but that's not the world in which we live. I'd also prefer that arms dealers shut down, that whatever Philip Morris calls itself these days shut down, that food manufacturers stop using high-fructose corn syrup, etc, etc.
- leetcrew 7y agois juul hurting you personally? I and many of my friends are using juuls and other vapes as smoking cessation tools with great success. we would very much prefer for them not to shut down. edit: I do understand that some people are concerned about juul's alleged marketing to minors. if that's really what you're upset about, why not narrow your focus? I don't think many vape consumers would object to having vape advertisements strictly limited or banned.
- nzjrs 7y agoNot being a xxxx, but I wanted to honestly ask about how you square or feel about those that start vaping in order to quit smoking, and then just massively become into vaping, talk about it all the time and the gadgetry and accessories, the community, etc. I've got a few friends that went this way and it's a bit... odd.
- leetcrew 7y agoI think it's a little bit silly, but I went through that phase for about a year, so I don't judge the people too harshly. as long as you're not chucking huge clouds at people in a public space, I think it's mostly harmless. in a way, it kinda reminds me of the pc overclocking community.
- dr_dshiv 7y agoIt's because it works so much better than anything else. But then it becomes insidious and if one is smart, you don't keep it around anymore. But for those with addiction issues, way better to be Juul than pretty much any other addiction
- PascLeRasc 7y ago
- nabdab 7y ago“What do you suppose I do?”, the drug dealer asks, “Stop selling heroin just because a couple of my costumers ruined their lives or ended up OD’ing? They’d just buy it somewhere else anyway.” The moral thing to do is not to sell the thing you openly admit is bad for the people you sell it to, even if you end up losing a profit making machine. That is oddly often the case that morality doesn’t quite align with profits. But let’s not pretend like you are option-less to do anything but maximize profits.
- laughingbovine 7y agoAlright, everyone on their high horse? OK. Now, to wait for all the tobacco companies to voluntarily shut themselves down. Any day now...
- xboxnolifes 7y agoTobacco companies don't need to shutdown for you, yourself, to not sell tobacco.
- kennywinker 7y agoYup. Capitalism motivates people to do things that hurts and takes advantage of others. I can be mad at the system that motives you, and also think you're a dick for valuing money over doing something that is a net benefit to the world. I can also seek to control your ability to do damage using laws and public discourse.
- Talyen42 7y agoYes. That was easy.