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Is this what it looks like when a corporation has a morality, rather than just maximizing shareholder value?
by linsomniac 7y ago
Is this what it looks like when a corporation has a morality, rather than just maximizing shareholder value?
- cheez 7y agoGetting ahead of lawsuits
- kennywinker 7y agoNope. Reading the article further it’s clear to me that they just want to avoid criticism by positioning themselves as a tool to quit smoking. They know that some people are going to buy them no matter what they say - and this just keeps parents off their backs and their products on retailers shelves.
- socalnate1 7y agoWhat do you propose they do? Shut down?
- DanBC 7y agoNot market to children.
- kennywinker 7y agoI mean, I would love it if people behaved in a moral way - if they are in a business that brings a net negative value to the world, then yes! Shut it down! But I'm not here expecting that to happen... Instead I think we should just know that what they are saying and why they are saying it is 100% a cyncial play to make more money at the cost of the environment and people's health, and regulate them as such.
- scarface74 7y agoPlaying Devils Advocate: Why are we so quick to demonize the tobacco industry but we don’t demonize companies that sell alcohol, artificial sweeteners, junk food, red meat, etc. They are all unhealthy. I’m sure everyone has some bad habits that will lead to a premature death.
- cryptonector 7y agoOr even marijuana. Legalizing marijuana is popular now, and so is banning nicotine. The cognitive dissonance in that is something to marvel at.
- tehjoker 7y agoNot really. You can want something to be legal, not have the state brutalize people, and still not want for profit companies synthesizing desire via marketing and product design and creating ubiquitous availability.
- scarface74 7y agoYou can want both. But it can’t happen. I personally would rather not have a world where marijuana use is widespread, but I would rather have that if it means taking away one more tool from the justice system to punish people (unequally) for a victimless crime.
- dr_dshiv 7y agoWhat world do you live in? Potato chip companies cause way way more social harm than Juul. It is waaay easier to quit Juul than cigarettes. It doesn't cause cancer. What is actually the issue, besides the puritanism?
- kennywinker 7y ago1. potato chips aren't addictive. 2. juul is bringing millions of new people to tobacco products, not just providing a way for smokers to ease off cigarettes.
- leetcrew 7y ago> potato chips aren't addictive this claim is not uncontroversial. they don't cause physical dependence in the way we think of with drugs (ie, no physical withdrawal syndrome), but eating junk food can be an exceptionally difficult habit to break. humans can become addicted to almost anything that gives a moderate to strong immediate reward.
- pwinnski 7y agoYes, in fact, but that's not the world in which we live. I'd also prefer that arms dealers shut down, that whatever Philip Morris calls itself these days shut down, that food manufacturers stop using high-fructose corn syrup, etc, etc.
- leetcrew 7y agois juul hurting you personally? I and many of my friends are using juuls and other vapes as smoking cessation tools with great success. we would very much prefer for them not to shut down. edit: I do understand that some people are concerned about juul's alleged marketing to minors. if that's really what you're upset about, why not narrow your focus? I don't think many vape consumers would object to having vape advertisements strictly limited or banned.
- nzjrs 7y agoNot being a xxxx, but I wanted to honestly ask about how you square or feel about those that start vaping in order to quit smoking, and then just massively become into vaping, talk about it all the time and the gadgetry and accessories, the community, etc. I've got a few friends that went this way and it's a bit... odd.
- leetcrew 7y agoI think it's a little bit silly, but I went through that phase for about a year, so I don't judge the people too harshly. as long as you're not chucking huge clouds at people in a public space, I think it's mostly harmless. in a way, it kinda reminds me of the pc overclocking community.
- dr_dshiv 7y agoIt's because it works so much better than anything else. But then it becomes insidious and if one is smart, you don't keep it around anymore. But for those with addiction issues, way better to be Juul than pretty much any other addiction
- PascLeRasc 7y ago
- nabdab 7y ago“What do you suppose I do?”, the drug dealer asks, “Stop selling heroin just because a couple of my costumers ruined their lives or ended up OD’ing? They’d just buy it somewhere else anyway.” The moral thing to do is not to sell the thing you openly admit is bad for the people you sell it to, even if you end up losing a profit making machine. That is oddly often the case that morality doesn’t quite align with profits. But let’s not pretend like you are option-less to do anything but maximize profits.
- laughingbovine 7y agoAlright, everyone on their high horse? OK. Now, to wait for all the tobacco companies to voluntarily shut themselves down. Any day now...
- xboxnolifes 7y agoTobacco companies don't need to shutdown for you, yourself, to not sell tobacco.
- kennywinker 7y agoYup. Capitalism motivates people to do things that hurts and takes advantage of others. I can be mad at the system that motives you, and also think you're a dick for valuing money over doing something that is a net benefit to the world. I can also seek to control your ability to do damage using laws and public discourse.
- Talyen42 7y agoYes. That was easy.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- president 7y agoIt's the equivalent of putting cancer risk statements or graphic warnings on cigarette packs. People will still buy them.
- DanBC 7y agoNo, this is what it looks like when a corporation has been caught marketing an addictive product to non-smoking children.
- nemothekid 7y agoThe company's "mission" has always been that of "we provide a healthy alternative to smoking cigarettes". I remember reading that was the internal koolaid that got people to work there - they weren't creating new smokers, they were converting cigarette smokers to a healthy vaping option. Whether that is true in reality is dubious, but I'm not surprised their CEO would come out publicly and say something like that.
- jakelazaroff 7y agoIt's false, at least insofar as teen smoking goes. E-cigarettes have more or less completely erased any gains in getting teens to stop smoking over the past couple decades. https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/tim-kaine/has-vaping-wiped-out-progress-reducing-youth-smoki/ https://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2019/jun/12/t...
- dr_dshiv 7y agoNo! Read the article. Teens are vaping more but smoking less. The article is equivocal about the health effects of vaping and smoking but that is ridiculous. Smoking is a known cause of early death. Suggesting that "we don't know" about vaping is just silly. Replacing a known killer with something that probably doesn't kill is good.
- nemothekid 7y agoI'm not arguing the veracity of his claims - just that his claims aren't new to the company. After all its imperative that the company is marketed as a "health" solution in order to recruit and skirt regulations, so I wouldn't automatically believe they are acting "morally"; Internally they might believe they need as many teens hooked as possible.
- P_I_Staker 7y agoYes, that's been their claim since day 0. The founders basically claim that they invented it for themselves. The intent was to be a harm reduction device for people that can't quit smoking. Nobody, except them knows how genuine they are.
- onetimemanytime 7y agoThere's nothing else he can say, really. But he knows that regardless of what he says people will use it. And watch their ads, not his words intended to be seen by a very limited number of people.
- kolbe 7y agoNo. It's lies as they roll out more bubblegum flavored cartridges to give nicotine addicted 14 year olds another choice.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- thatswrong0 7y agoAdults also like flavored things too ya know..
- linsomniac 7y agoI guess I'm glad my downvoted comment generated so much discussion. :-) Lots of good points here, but when I first read what the CEO said, it struck me as pretty much the opposite of what I expected him to be saying.
- linsomniac 7y agoI'm trying to figure out why my comment was so downvoted. It was a legitimate response, based on my actual reaction to reading the article, and generated a ton of thoughtful discussion, which has reframed the article for me. I'm honestly curious as to why it was downvoted.