6 ms·

That's simply false. They don't do ad replacement. You have to volunteer yourself to receive ads and they come in like system notifications, not anywhere near

That's simply false. They don't do ad replacement. You have to volunteer yourself to receive ads and they come in like system notifications, not anywhere near the content.

basch 7y ago
thats a bit of semantics. if they block someone elses ads, and display their own ads they are still replacing what a persons attention is drawn to, even if it is an overlay instead of injected into the page. (its literally called an attention token, diverting attention to a new target.) should they be allowed to create an ad driven piece of software? absolutely? but if that software is an ad blocking browser, its creating a new interesting gray area.
- lukemulks 7y ago
  (Brave employee here) We block 3rd party ads and tracking, that collect user data, often without their knowledge or consent. Brave Ads are disabled by default, to ensure that no one sees ads that is not interested in viewing ads. This provides a benefit to advertisers as well, as they currently dump a lot of money into a dumpster fire, and are basically tasked with measuring how many of the pixels appeared on the screen for a certain amount of time. Brands don't know if people that viewed the ad were interested in advertising. People get shotgunned with ads. We're approaching this differently. We've introduced advertising that is private by default, with a new approach to measuring and accounting for ad event confirmations through our ad confirmation protocol. We have some information regarding the confirmation protocol here, for those interested. https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Security-and-privacy-model-for-ad-confirmations https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Security-and-pri... Aside from providing advertising that's private by default, our ad platform includes people in the process, by rewarding them for their attention (70% of the rev share for the ads viewed). People can then contribute those tokens to publishers and creators (like Wikipedia), or hold the tokens. In the future, people will be able to redeem tokens for gift cards, premium content, etc. We'll be introducing additional ad units in the future for publishers, with a cleaner deal and better rev share than they currently receive (publishers will receive 70% of the revenue, people will receive 15%, Brave will receive 15%). If we were just replacing publisher ads with other ads from the existing ad ecosystem, I'd understand and agree with the sentiment. That said, we're bringing new methods for ad delivery, accounting and matching to the market, all designed to function without leaking your information from your device. Hope this helps.
  - dymk 7y ago
    You don’t block third party ads; you block first party ads that the website depends on for revenue
    - BrendanEich 7y ago
      We don't block 1st party ads. We block tracking tags including GPT/GTM, which will block some direct sold ads. We can with the publisher as partner fix this, but not by whitelisting tracking.
      - basch 7y ago
        has it ever come up to run something similar to Opera's old community driven javascript site patch library/database? I think it would be amazing to have a browser, that instead of just blocking ads, had a way for you to set "whatever the community thinks is best" and have the browser pull down the best stylish/tampermonkeyish patches for a site, or completely new css. (you would also have a drop down with "see other popular views, and "set this view as default for this site, along with the ability to rank/vote on which template applies best for that site.) Or the user could have an option on first run that asks "ideally what would sites look like" and then have it pull the most appropriate modification to match that template. A user could lean towards "let the site express its identity and clean it up a little bit" OR "strip it down to just the essentials" OR "just fix the bugs." In an ideal world, I would prefer to use a browser that, by default, homogenizes as much of the layout of a site as possible, with a one click option to "see it how it was intended." I think reader modes go a little too far, because they destroy content layout and nav in the process of cleanup. It would be nice for some elements, like navigation to come through, but in a standardized way, so the menu bar at new york times and washington post render identically, but still let me bounce between their different verticals. RSS readers sort of accomplish that, but I would rather be able to also BROWSE the web. RSS readers clean up one layer deep, but in a hyperlinked world dont let you get very far.
        BrendanEich 7y ago
        Greaselion is coming up as I write this. Stay tuned.
- jonathansampson 7y ago
  The problem is more nuanced than "they block someone elses ads, and display their own," though. Modern digital ads (since their start in the early-mid 90s, have been about data collection. In 2009, online advertising was further adapted to include a process known as Real-Time Bidding, where users are auctioned off (usually in less than 100ms) for each ad-slot on each page they visit. The ad industry has been transforming more and more into a system of _surveillance capitalism_. These changes to the digital advertising industry have driven mass adoption of ad and content blockers. In 2015, more than 500 million users were blocking trackers, and ads/content that relied on them. This protects user privacy and security, but hurts the sustainability of the Web we all know and love. Brave aims to deliver a fully developed solution. Brave's model (which is predicated on user-consent, and privacy-by-default) seeks to fully-solve the aforementioned problems. We offer advertising without compromising user trust, and better value to advertisers/publishers during the process. Perhaps most importantly is that Brave Rewards brings disillusioned users who once ran ad and tracker blockers back into the fold.
  - basch 7y ago
    I'm not defending the ad industry, the worst players have ruined it for everyone. It is 100% a safety hazard to surf the web without ad and javascript blocking. I absolutely support users having the choice of what programs to render on their devices, and being allowed to control what javascript executes when a page loads. If it breaks the site while your mucking with its local execution, thats on the user (although ideally all sites should have accessibility compatibility, and work as just plain text. 1st party ads would still work fine.) And although I find them annoying, paywalls and ad blocking detection are choices that publishers can choose to make.

That's simply false. They don't do ad replacement. You have to volunteer yourself to receive ads and they come in like system notifications, not anywhere near the content.

basch 7y ago

thats a bit of semantics. if they block someone elses ads, and display their own ads they are still replacing what a persons attention is drawn to, even if it is an overlay instead of injected into the page. (its literally called an attention token, diverting attention to a new target.) should they be allowed to create an ad driven piece of software? absolutely? but if that software is an ad blocking browser, its creating a new interesting gray area.

lukemulks 7y ago
(Brave employee here) We block 3rd party ads and tracking, that collect user data, often without their knowledge or consent. Brave Ads are disabled by default, to ensure that no one sees ads that is not interested in viewing ads. This provides a benefit to advertisers as well, as they currently dump a lot of money into a dumpster fire, and are basically tasked with measuring how many of the pixels appeared on the screen for a certain amount of time. Brands don't know if people that viewed the ad were interested in advertising. People get shotgunned with ads. We're approaching this differently. We've introduced advertising that is private by default, with a new approach to measuring and accounting for ad event confirmations through our ad confirmation protocol. We have some information regarding the confirmation protocol here, for those interested. https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Security-and-privacy-model-for-ad-confirmations https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/wiki/Security-and-pri... Aside from providing advertising that's private by default, our ad platform includes people in the process, by rewarding them for their attention (70% of the rev share for the ads viewed). People can then contribute those tokens to publishers and creators (like Wikipedia), or hold the tokens. In the future, people will be able to redeem tokens for gift cards, premium content, etc. We'll be introducing additional ad units in the future for publishers, with a cleaner deal and better rev share than they currently receive (publishers will receive 70% of the revenue, people will receive 15%, Brave will receive 15%). If we were just replacing publisher ads with other ads from the existing ad ecosystem, I'd understand and agree with the sentiment. That said, we're bringing new methods for ad delivery, accounting and matching to the market, all designed to function without leaking your information from your device. Hope this helps.
- dymk 7y ago
  You don’t block third party ads; you block first party ads that the website depends on for revenue
  - BrendanEich 7y ago
    We don't block 1st party ads. We block tracking tags including GPT/GTM, which will block some direct sold ads. We can with the publisher as partner fix this, but not by whitelisting tracking.
    - basch 7y ago
      has it ever come up to run something similar to Opera's old community driven javascript site patch library/database? I think it would be amazing to have a browser, that instead of just blocking ads, had a way for you to set "whatever the community thinks is best" and have the browser pull down the best stylish/tampermonkeyish patches for a site, or completely new css. (you would also have a drop down with "see other popular views, and "set this view as default for this site, along with the ability to rank/vote on which template applies best for that site.) Or the user could have an option on first run that asks "ideally what would sites look like" and then have it pull the most appropriate modification to match that template. A user could lean towards "let the site express its identity and clean it up a little bit" OR "strip it down to just the essentials" OR "just fix the bugs." In an ideal world, I would prefer to use a browser that, by default, homogenizes as much of the layout of a site as possible, with a one click option to "see it how it was intended." I think reader modes go a little too far, because they destroy content layout and nav in the process of cleanup. It would be nice for some elements, like navigation to come through, but in a standardized way, so the menu bar at new york times and washington post render identically, but still let me bounce between their different verticals. RSS readers sort of accomplish that, but I would rather be able to also BROWSE the web. RSS readers clean up one layer deep, but in a hyperlinked world dont let you get very far.
      - BrendanEich 7y ago
        Greaselion is coming up as I write this. Stay tuned.
jonathansampson 7y ago
The problem is more nuanced than "they block someone elses ads, and display their own," though. Modern digital ads (since their start in the early-mid 90s, have been about data collection. In 2009, online advertising was further adapted to include a process known as Real-Time Bidding, where users are auctioned off (usually in less than 100ms) for each ad-slot on each page they visit. The ad industry has been transforming more and more into a system of _surveillance capitalism_. These changes to the digital advertising industry have driven mass adoption of ad and content blockers. In 2015, more than 500 million users were blocking trackers, and ads/content that relied on them. This protects user privacy and security, but hurts the sustainability of the Web we all know and love. Brave aims to deliver a fully developed solution. Brave's model (which is predicated on user-consent, and privacy-by-default) seeks to fully-solve the aforementioned problems. We offer advertising without compromising user trust, and better value to advertisers/publishers during the process. Perhaps most importantly is that Brave Rewards brings disillusioned users who once ran ad and tracker blockers back into the fold.
- basch 7y ago
  I'm not defending the ad industry, the worst players have ruined it for everyone. It is 100% a safety hazard to surf the web without ad and javascript blocking. I absolutely support users having the choice of what programs to render on their devices, and being allowed to control what javascript executes when a page loads. If it breaks the site while your mucking with its local execution, thats on the user (although ideally all sites should have accessibility compatibility, and work as just plain text. 1st party ads would still work fine.) And although I find them annoying, paywalls and ad blocking detection are choices that publishers can choose to make.