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I had never read the Brave ad model before. They want to display ads while respecting user privacy, which is nice from a user point of view, but do advertisers

by seren 7y ago

I had never read the Brave ad model before. They want to display ads while respecting user privacy, which is nice from a user point of view, but do advertisers actually want that rather than being able to target 35-40 years old in Ohio that are using shaving products twice a week ?

dx87 7y ago
They'd probably prefer targeted advertising, but if they have to choose between too many or too few people seeing their ad, they'd probably pick too many.
- jonathansampson 7y ago
  Generally speaking, Advertisers aim to get better value for their buck, so to speak. In the early days of online advertising, it was not uncommon to pay for impressions that may or may not be set before the eyes of a relevant audience. Around 2009 the process of Real-Time Bidding was created, and advertisers began to get better value, but at the expense of an unethical auction process that took place for each ad-slot on a page. With Brave Ads, advertisers know that they're reaching a party that is interested (Brave Ads are opt-in). Advertisers know that attrition of value due to fraud and middle-men is reduced in our model. Users know that they don't have to sacrifice privacy or security to participate, and that on-device machine-learning progressively delivers a better experience over time.
sigmar 7y ago
Brave ads are targeted through on-device matching. I'm not sure how well this will scale tho. Described in "Relevance" here: https://brave.com/brave-ads-launch/ https://brave.com/brave-ads-launch/
- jonathansampson 7y ago
  Correct. Once a user opts-in, machine-learning bits on the user's device take over and begin to study browsing habits and interests. These ML bits then decide what types of ads are likely to be of interest to the user. What are your scaling concerns? I'd love to hear more!
  - hobofan 7y ago
    I would assume that once a lot of advertisers are on the platform the ad catalogue can quickly grow to the size of GBs, which would be unfeasible to hold on smartphones.
    - jonathansampson 7y ago
      Catalogs are regional, and reflect only active campaigns. So far, the file hovers around 3 MB when compressed. We are able to optimize size even further, as needed. It will always remain small enough to be downloaded easily.
    - lukemulks 7y ago
      The catalog contains edge-cached URLs and metadata for the ads. The size remains small, as we're not compressing down images, rich media, video or other assets in the catalog. (I work at Brave, and am on the team bringing the ad platform to market)
      - jammygit 7y ago
        Could you clarify a tiny bit? I’m not sure I follow. If you are not including images or video in the ads, does that mean that you are downloading them at view time from somewhere, or that the ads have no images or video? Also, what are edge cached urls?
        jonathansampson 7y ago
        Ads first appear as OS notifications on your desktop. This notification displays plain-text content from the regional ad catalog. You get 70% of the ad revenue at this point. If you click the notification, Brave opens a tab in the Brave browser and navigates to the advertisement location. At this point, the ad can load images, video, etc. Important to note, however, that ad pages are not given any special treatment in the Brave browser. They are subject to the same privacy/security restrictions on all other pages. Third parties are severely limited, if not entirely prevented from engaging in the session.
jonathansampson 7y ago
Brave developer here. Great question! Brave Ads are entirely opt-in, and work via on-device machine-learning. The machine-learning bits study your browsing habits in a private, non-leaky manner. Once a day, your device downloads an aggregate catalog of many ad options to be studied locally. If/when an ad is found that fits your interests (as inferred by your browsing habits), the ad is displayed as an OS notification and 70% of the ad revenue is deposited into your in-situ wallet. So on the topic of targeting, Brave is able to deliver a better experience for Advertisers and Users, without the need to leak user information across the Web. The on-device ML bits learn about their user over time, delivering a better experience with maturity. I hope that helps!
- seren 7y ago
  Thanks for chiming in. So from the FAQ : https://brave.com/faq/#all-ads-blocked https://brave.com/faq/#all-ads-blocked > Each ad request is anonymous, and exposes only a small subset of the user’s preferences and intent signals to prevent “fingerprinting” the user by a possibly unique set of tags. It means that advertisers still get some feedback on the "intent signals" of the users that have seen their ads ? So it is private in the sense you cannot be uniquely identified but some of your intents are somewhat leaky ?
  - jonathansampson 7y ago
    Not quite, I think that FAQ item needs to be updated. The model works like this: The user opts-in to Brave Rewards/Ads. This kicks off a machine-learning model that begins to study the user's habits and interests. On a daily basis, the user downloads a regional ad catalog (as to other Brave users in their region). This catalog contains numerous ad options, which your device studies for relevance. If/when your device identifies an ad within the catalog that might be of interest to you, it displays the ad as an OS notification. At this time, 70% of the ad revenue is deposited into your in-situ wallet. At this point, the user has made absolutely no contact with an advertiser. If the user chooses to click on the ad, it is opened in its own tab in the Brave Browser. This tab, like all others, is subject to Brave's default security/privacy settings. No third party trackers, etc. The advertiser will know that you are interested in their product/service, because you clicked the ad. But no other information about you is given to them; only what can be inferred from standard first-party browsing online. Brave aims to keep your data private, and on-device. It is never leaked to us, or anybody else. You are sovereign over your data, and you decide with whom it is shared. That's our goal, always.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
barnabee 7y ago
There are two acceptable ad models for me: Paying, if it goes [almost] entirely to the publisher, not to see them Not paying anything to anyone, and still not seeing them (ad blocking)

by seren 7y ago

dx87 7y ago

They'd probably prefer targeted advertising, but if they have to choose between too many or too few people seeing their ad, they'd probably pick too many.

jonathansampson 7y ago
Generally speaking, Advertisers aim to get better value for their buck, so to speak. In the early days of online advertising, it was not uncommon to pay for impressions that may or may not be set before the eyes of a relevant audience. Around 2009 the process of Real-Time Bidding was created, and advertisers began to get better value, but at the expense of an unethical auction process that took place for each ad-slot on a page. With Brave Ads, advertisers know that they're reaching a party that is interested (Brave Ads are opt-in). Advertisers know that attrition of value due to fraud and middle-men is reduced in our model. Users know that they don't have to sacrifice privacy or security to participate, and that on-device machine-learning progressively delivers a better experience over time.

sigmar 7y ago

Brave ads are targeted through on-device matching. I'm not sure how well this will scale tho. Described in "Relevance" here: https://brave.com/brave-ads-launch/ https://brave.com/brave-ads-launch/

jonathansampson 7y ago
Correct. Once a user opts-in, machine-learning bits on the user's device take over and begin to study browsing habits and interests. These ML bits then decide what types of ads are likely to be of interest to the user. What are your scaling concerns? I'd love to hear more!
- hobofan 7y ago
  I would assume that once a lot of advertisers are on the platform the ad catalogue can quickly grow to the size of GBs, which would be unfeasible to hold on smartphones.
  - jonathansampson 7y ago
    Catalogs are regional, and reflect only active campaigns. So far, the file hovers around 3 MB when compressed. We are able to optimize size even further, as needed. It will always remain small enough to be downloaded easily.
  - lukemulks 7y ago
    The catalog contains edge-cached URLs and metadata for the ads. The size remains small, as we're not compressing down images, rich media, video or other assets in the catalog. (I work at Brave, and am on the team bringing the ad platform to market)
    - jammygit 7y ago
      Could you clarify a tiny bit? I’m not sure I follow. If you are not including images or video in the ads, does that mean that you are downloading them at view time from somewhere, or that the ads have no images or video? Also, what are edge cached urls?
      - jonathansampson 7y ago
        Ads first appear as OS notifications on your desktop. This notification displays plain-text content from the regional ad catalog. You get 70% of the ad revenue at this point. If you click the notification, Brave opens a tab in the Brave browser and navigates to the advertisement location. At this point, the ad can load images, video, etc. Important to note, however, that ad pages are not given any special treatment in the Brave browser. They are subject to the same privacy/security restrictions on all other pages. Third parties are severely limited, if not entirely prevented from engaging in the session.

jonathansampson 7y ago

Brave developer here. Great question! Brave Ads are entirely opt-in, and work via on-device machine-learning. The machine-learning bits study your browsing habits in a private, non-leaky manner. Once a day, your device downloads an aggregate catalog of many ad options to be studied locally. If/when an ad is found that fits your interests (as inferred by your browsing habits), the ad is displayed as an OS notification and 70% of the ad revenue is deposited into your in-situ wallet. So on the topic of targeting, Brave is able to deliver a better experience for Advertisers and Users, without the need to leak user information across the Web. The on-device ML bits learn about their user over time, delivering a better experience with maturity. I hope that helps!

seren 7y ago
Thanks for chiming in. So from the FAQ : https://brave.com/faq/#all-ads-blocked https://brave.com/faq/#all-ads-blocked > Each ad request is anonymous, and exposes only a small subset of the user’s preferences and intent signals to prevent “fingerprinting” the user by a possibly unique set of tags. It means that advertisers still get some feedback on the "intent signals" of the users that have seen their ads ? So it is private in the sense you cannot be uniquely identified but some of your intents are somewhat leaky ?
- jonathansampson 7y ago
  Not quite, I think that FAQ item needs to be updated. The model works like this: The user opts-in to Brave Rewards/Ads. This kicks off a machine-learning model that begins to study the user's habits and interests. On a daily basis, the user downloads a regional ad catalog (as to other Brave users in their region). This catalog contains numerous ad options, which your device studies for relevance. If/when your device identifies an ad within the catalog that might be of interest to you, it displays the ad as an OS notification. At this time, 70% of the ad revenue is deposited into your in-situ wallet. At this point, the user has made absolutely no contact with an advertiser. If the user chooses to click on the ad, it is opened in its own tab in the Brave Browser. This tab, like all others, is subject to Brave's default security/privacy settings. No third party trackers, etc. The advertiser will know that you are interested in their product/service, because you clicked the ad. But no other information about you is given to them; only what can be inferred from standard first-party browsing online. Brave aims to keep your data private, and on-device. It is never leaked to us, or anybody else. You are sovereign over your data, and you decide with whom it is shared. That's our goal, always.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

barnabee 7y ago

There are two acceptable ad models for me: Paying, if it goes [almost] entirely to the publisher, not to see them Not paying anything to anyone, and still not seeing them (ad blocking)