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Why are the only options for installing apps "Strict App Store" and "Open App Store"? That's a false dichotomy. Let apple have its app store but remove the rest

Why are the only options for installing apps "Strict App Store" and "Open App Store"? That's a false dichotomy. Let apple have its app store but remove the restrictions on installing apps from outside of it. If I want to install an apk directly from a publisher's website I should be able to.

zaroth 7y ago
Do you suppose those apk’s get to use the full set of iOS APIs and Services and not pay Apple for it?
- rowanG077 7y ago
  Yes of course. Programs on windows also can use the full set of windows APIs and Services and not pay microsoft. It's not actually a developer using those APIs the consumer is using those APIs through an application and the consumer has paid for those APIs and Services by buying the phone.
  - zaroth 7y ago
    So you fundamentally believe the government should force Apple to provide its software and services under very specific terms of use. You understand that many of these APIs are actually cloud-backed services that cost Apple money to operate? You understand that Apple funds the development and operation of these services through their share of App Store revenue? But you fundamentally believe this business model should be banned / illegal, because the idea of a device existing like the modern day iPhone does — a device which no one on Earth requires, and which has many substitutes — the idea that this device exists in its current form as a cohesive set of APIs and services that every app employs in order to provide a consistent and “magical” end-user experience - this is somehow detestable and must be eliminated?
    - mcguire 7y ago
      Can we keep the discussion in good faith?
      - oarsinsync 7y ago
        How do you manage battery life when multiple apps need to keep its own persistent connections open to its own home server for push notifications? How do you explain this to end users, when even tech-savvy people assume bad-faith when it's pointed out that many APIs are cloud-backed, forgetting the most obvious example of a cloud-backed API that is provided? Or, how does the mobile OS vendor perform any kind of spam protection at all on push notifications if they have to open their notification gateways to absolutely anyone? (I'm not suggesting they're doing a great job of it now, but think about what happens when they lose the most effective stick - being kicked off the platform - that they have)
        jasonlotito 7y ago
        > How do you manage battery life when multiple apps need to keep its own persistent connections open to its own home server for push notifications? Apple already has extensive experience in this area with macOS. > Or, how does the mobile OS vendor perform any kind of spam protection at all on push notifications if they have to open their notification gateways to absolutely anyone Do they? They could just as easily require that apps outside the App Store provide their own push notification infrastructure. You act like these things are impossible to overcome. And you pretend like Apple isn't already earning money from this. Apple is already charging people for the iPhone. People keep saying they are a hardware company. Are they really?
        oarsinsync 7y ago
        > Apple already has extensive experience in this area with macOS. macOS runs on platforms with persistent power and/or significantly larger batteries. The power drain caused by persistent connections is negligible given the size of the battery. > Do they? They could just as easily require that apps outside the App Store provide their own push notification infrastructure. This was one of two options - allow apps to manage their own push notifications (which requires apps to maintain persistent connections to external servers) or open up the gateways to anyone (which doesn't). I can't think of a third option, but I'm open to suggestions. > You act like these things are impossible to overcome. Nothing is impossible to overcome, but most things require trade-offs. In this case, I see the trade off being battery life vs spam (and that's only if you open up the platform, which is the other trade off - open vs closed platforms) > People keep saying they are a hardware company. Are they really? If you've paid attention to any apple earnings reports in the last 2 years, they themselves state they're trying to pivot towards services over hardware, specifically because the hardware market is no longer a major growth market.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Yes, I should be able to install whatever I want on the device I own.
mcguire 7y ago
And why is the only option for a strict app store no warning, no due process, no appeals, and no actual support?

zaroth 7y ago

Do you suppose those apk’s get to use the full set of iOS APIs and Services and not pay Apple for it?

rowanG077 7y ago
Yes of course. Programs on windows also can use the full set of windows APIs and Services and not pay microsoft. It's not actually a developer using those APIs the consumer is using those APIs through an application and the consumer has paid for those APIs and Services by buying the phone.
- zaroth 7y ago
  So you fundamentally believe the government should force Apple to provide its software and services under very specific terms of use. You understand that many of these APIs are actually cloud-backed services that cost Apple money to operate? You understand that Apple funds the development and operation of these services through their share of App Store revenue? But you fundamentally believe this business model should be banned / illegal, because the idea of a device existing like the modern day iPhone does — a device which no one on Earth requires, and which has many substitutes — the idea that this device exists in its current form as a cohesive set of APIs and services that every app employs in order to provide a consistent and “magical” end-user experience - this is somehow detestable and must be eliminated?
  - mcguire 7y ago
    Can we keep the discussion in good faith?
    - oarsinsync 7y ago
      How do you manage battery life when multiple apps need to keep its own persistent connections open to its own home server for push notifications? How do you explain this to end users, when even tech-savvy people assume bad-faith when it's pointed out that many APIs are cloud-backed, forgetting the most obvious example of a cloud-backed API that is provided? Or, how does the mobile OS vendor perform any kind of spam protection at all on push notifications if they have to open their notification gateways to absolutely anyone? (I'm not suggesting they're doing a great job of it now, but think about what happens when they lose the most effective stick - being kicked off the platform - that they have)
      - jasonlotito 7y ago
        > How do you manage battery life when multiple apps need to keep its own persistent connections open to its own home server for push notifications? Apple already has extensive experience in this area with macOS. > Or, how does the mobile OS vendor perform any kind of spam protection at all on push notifications if they have to open their notification gateways to absolutely anyone Do they? They could just as easily require that apps outside the App Store provide their own push notification infrastructure. You act like these things are impossible to overcome. And you pretend like Apple isn't already earning money from this. Apple is already charging people for the iPhone. People keep saying they are a hardware company. Are they really?
        oarsinsync 7y ago
        > Apple already has extensive experience in this area with macOS. macOS runs on platforms with persistent power and/or significantly larger batteries. The power drain caused by persistent connections is negligible given the size of the battery. > Do they? They could just as easily require that apps outside the App Store provide their own push notification infrastructure. This was one of two options - allow apps to manage their own push notifications (which requires apps to maintain persistent connections to external servers) or open up the gateways to anyone (which doesn't). I can't think of a third option, but I'm open to suggestions. > You act like these things are impossible to overcome. Nothing is impossible to overcome, but most things require trade-offs. In this case, I see the trade off being battery life vs spam (and that's only if you open up the platform, which is the other trade off - open vs closed platforms) > People keep saying they are a hardware company. Are they really? If you've paid attention to any apple earnings reports in the last 2 years, they themselves state they're trying to pivot towards services over hardware, specifically because the hardware market is no longer a major growth market.
MiroF 7y ago
Yes, I should be able to install whatever I want on the device I own.

mcguire 7y ago

And why is the only option for a strict app store no warning, no due process, no appeals, and no actual support?