4 ms·

> 1. If you don't care about MacOS, and want a different keyboard, please buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 and leave us happy Macbook Pro users in peace. I would gladly

> 1. If you don't care about MacOS, and want a different keyboard, please buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 and leave us happy Macbook Pro users in peace. I would gladly get a Carbon X1 or an XPS 15 if my work didn't require me to use macOS (or better: if Apple didn't require me to use macOS to build iOS apps). Sadly I can't and so I'm too stuck with a 2018 MacBook Pro and its crappy keyboard > 2. If your keyboard breaks, Apple will replace it free. The newer gen keyboards generally don't break. Author's model is, like mine, quite new since it's the 2018 one. It still sucks and it still breaks. Also, I don't want to wait N days for Apple to fix the keyboard. > 3. If you really can't type on this keyboard and you really love MacOS, there are lots of decent thin Bluetooth keyboards. Microsoft has a great one. It's a small monetary sacrifice you'll need to make for sticking with MacOS. i.e. something we already do when we buy Macbook Pros ;) My company has already shelled out a couple grands for this machine, suggesting to use a Bluetooth keyboard is offensive given the price point of this laptop and how cumbersome and uncomfortable using an external keyboard on a laptop is. > I am getting tired of being sneered at for "clearly not understanding my own interests" because I like my Macbook Pro, have never had a keyboard issue, I LIKE TYPING on the keyboard, and would buy another one. I'll be honest: I don't care how you use your MacBook and I'm ok if you don't care how other people use them. But with a machine at this price point, which is also labeled _Pro_, an issue like this after three product releases is completely unacceptable

hsk823 7y ago
I agree with your general point, the last three generations of MBP keyboards are unacceptable, but just because something has "Pro" in it's name, doesn't make it professional or enterprise or mil spec.
- Kipters 7y ago
  I agree, I too think naming something "Pro" is stupid (especially when you don't have a "non-Pro" counterpart). It just adds a pinch of irony to the whole situation: they're selling it as a professional machine, and it can't stand normal use by a large part of people who use it professionally without failing hard
- exergy 7y ago
  That is quite literally what the "Pro" stands for. What's more, a functional keyboard is a VERY low bar for a very expensive laptop to clear.
bluedino 7y ago
>> after three product releases Four. Don't forget the 2015 MacBook Retina.
- Kipters 7y ago
  You're right, I've had completely forgotten that one!
prepreference 7y ago
> my work That’s a lot of words to express that you never feel truly free.
- Kipters 7y ago
  "What I do daily so I can pay rent and eat" sounds better?
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
> My company has already shelled out a couple grands for this machine, suggesting to use a Bluetooth keyboard is offensive given the price point of this laptop and how cumbersome and uncomfortable using an external keyboard on a laptop is. I'd honestly describe using the built-in keyboard (and especially trackpad) on most laptops as cumbersome and uncomfortable. Unless you really need to have a mobile workstation - running between meetings, conference rooms, into lots of labs/industrial environments where you can't bring a laptop cart with monitor/keyboard...why would you not dock the machine? Even if you prefer the feel of the keyboard or trackpad, wouldn't you want the ergonomics to be better than a laptop if you're working on it all day? A pair or trio of 20+ inch displays mounted just below eye height at about reach distance, ergonomic keyboard with elbows at about 90 degrees, and full size mouse will always be a better workstation than the nicest laptop keyboard, trackpad, and 15" display hinged to said keyboard.
- Kipters 7y ago
  > I'd honestly describe using the built-in keyboard (and especially trackpad) on most laptops as cumbersome and uncomfortable. I somewhat agree given the topic, but I think carrying, having to charge and balancing a Bluetooth keyboard while you're using a laptop as a laptop (on your lap instead of on a desk) is a tad worse > Unless you really need to have a mobile workstation - running between meetings, conference rooms, into lots of labs/industrial environments where you can't bring a laptop cart with monitor/keyboard...why would you not dock the machine? > Even if you prefer the feel of the keyboard or trackpad, wouldn't you want the ergonomics to be better than a laptop if you're working on it all day? A pair or trio of 20+ inch displays mounted just below eye height at about reach distance, ergonomic keyboard with elbows at about 90 degrees, and full size mouse will always be a better workstation than the nicest laptop keyboard, trackpad, and 15" display hinged to said keyboard. On my desk(s) the laptop is usually docked and connected to external monitors and an external (and ergonomic) keyboard and mouse kit, but I happen to work from trains, planes, airports, coworkings or from the couch sometimes. I also like the ability to just close the lid and quickly move somewhere else if needed, having to use a Bluetooth keyboard for this case is awkward to say the least. At this point, why get a laptop at all? (disclaimer: I'm 100% pro desktop PCs)
parasubvert 7y ago
See, the above is what I’m talking about. You’re making excuses to keep yourself miserable. Just ask your employer for an external keyboard. Or get one yourself. It’s no more offensive than buying aftermarket parts for a car. It clearly is completely acceptable for Apple to act this way, because millions of MacBook Pros are sold and most are fine with them. Ps. Please tell me more about now external keyboards are uncomfortable. They’re how everyone not on a laptop types, and usually the main example of good keyboards. I would be willing to contribute to an external keyboard gofundme to help resolve your misery.

hsk823 7y ago

I agree with your general point, the last three generations of MBP keyboards are unacceptable, but just because something has "Pro" in it's name, doesn't make it professional or enterprise or mil spec.

Kipters 7y ago
I agree, I too think naming something "Pro" is stupid (especially when you don't have a "non-Pro" counterpart). It just adds a pinch of irony to the whole situation: they're selling it as a professional machine, and it can't stand normal use by a large part of people who use it professionally without failing hard
exergy 7y ago
That is quite literally what the "Pro" stands for. What's more, a functional keyboard is a VERY low bar for a very expensive laptop to clear.

bluedino 7y ago

>> after three product releases Four. Don't forget the 2015 MacBook Retina.

Kipters 7y ago
You're right, I've had completely forgotten that one!

prepreference 7y ago

> my work That’s a lot of words to express that you never feel truly free.

Kipters 7y ago
"What I do daily so I can pay rent and eat" sounds better?

LeifCarrotson 7y ago

> My company has already shelled out a couple grands for this machine, suggesting to use a Bluetooth keyboard is offensive given the price point of this laptop and how cumbersome and uncomfortable using an external keyboard on a laptop is. I'd honestly describe using the built-in keyboard (and especially trackpad) on most laptops as cumbersome and uncomfortable. Unless you really need to have a mobile workstation - running between meetings, conference rooms, into lots of labs/industrial environments where you can't bring a laptop cart with monitor/keyboard...why would you not dock the machine? Even if you prefer the feel of the keyboard or trackpad, wouldn't you want the ergonomics to be better than a laptop if you're working on it all day? A pair or trio of 20+ inch displays mounted just below eye height at about reach distance, ergonomic keyboard with elbows at about 90 degrees, and full size mouse will always be a better workstation than the nicest laptop keyboard, trackpad, and 15" display hinged to said keyboard.

Kipters 7y ago
> I'd honestly describe using the built-in keyboard (and especially trackpad) on most laptops as cumbersome and uncomfortable. I somewhat agree given the topic, but I think carrying, having to charge and balancing a Bluetooth keyboard while you're using a laptop as a laptop (on your lap instead of on a desk) is a tad worse > Unless you really need to have a mobile workstation - running between meetings, conference rooms, into lots of labs/industrial environments where you can't bring a laptop cart with monitor/keyboard...why would you not dock the machine? > Even if you prefer the feel of the keyboard or trackpad, wouldn't you want the ergonomics to be better than a laptop if you're working on it all day? A pair or trio of 20+ inch displays mounted just below eye height at about reach distance, ergonomic keyboard with elbows at about 90 degrees, and full size mouse will always be a better workstation than the nicest laptop keyboard, trackpad, and 15" display hinged to said keyboard. On my desk(s) the laptop is usually docked and connected to external monitors and an external (and ergonomic) keyboard and mouse kit, but I happen to work from trains, planes, airports, coworkings or from the couch sometimes. I also like the ability to just close the lid and quickly move somewhere else if needed, having to use a Bluetooth keyboard for this case is awkward to say the least. At this point, why get a laptop at all? (disclaimer: I'm 100% pro desktop PCs)

parasubvert 7y ago

See, the above is what I’m talking about. You’re making excuses to keep yourself miserable. Just ask your employer for an external keyboard. Or get one yourself. It’s no more offensive than buying aftermarket parts for a car. It clearly is completely acceptable for Apple to act this way, because millions of MacBook Pros are sold and most are fine with them. Ps. Please tell me more about now external keyboards are uncomfortable. They’re how everyone not on a laptop types, and usually the main example of good keyboards. I would be willing to contribute to an external keyboard gofundme to help resolve your misery.