4 ms·

so? That still doesn't make an ape my ancestor. Or are you saying that every specie I see is ending up being a human? Or is it only when a specie has been 'a go

so? That still doesn't make an ape my ancestor. Or are you saying that every specie I see is ending up being a human? Or is it only when a specie has been 'a good boy'? I am a software developer, dealing with logic all day. This idea is flawed all over. Because we don't know how and why Earth and the ecosystem were created doesn't mean we have to come up with some theory because we need one. Especially not build upon a theory that originated in a time when people believed there was an end to the earth where you could fall off. Simply say to the kids at school that this is something we still don't know. Nothing to be ashamed of.

JumpCrisscross 7y ago
> are you saying that every specie I see is ending up being a human? No scientist argues this. Nor does any scientist argue that humans evolved from modern apes. If you're arguing in good faith, an introductory text on microbial evolution is where you'll find approachable answers. They're on human time scales and adequately describes the multi-path mechanism by which mutation and natural selection lead to speciation and evolution.
tspiteri 7y ago
Are you implying that if we don't know all the details of something, then we just don't know it? That is, are you implying that if we don't know all the details about our evolution, then we should just say that we know nothing and ignore all the things we actually do know are very very likely? That would leave you without any empirical sciences, because there has always something we do not know. When Newtonian mechanics where the best we had, they were incomplete, but they are still extremely useful even now that we know they are incomplete. All empirical sciences are essentially some theory that fits the empirical evidenc, but never completely and perfectly. In my post I'm assuming acceptance of what is commonly accepted in the theory of evolution. If you don't accept that, there is absolutely no point in continuing this discussion.
- siempreb 7y ago
  > if we don't know all the details about our evolution, then we should just say that we know nothing and ignore all the things we actually do know are very very likely? Nothing wrong with studying and figuring out how things work, you should not look at it with an all or nothing attitude. But assuming from the very start that all human species ancestors are some kind of ape is just so ridiculous that it can only sink in when you are properly conditioned(at school) or properly brainwashed. And teaching it to the kids on school is almost criminal IMHO. You want proof, me too, but we don't have it yet. But I promise you it will not be apes, just as we don't fall of the end of the earth. > In my post I'm assuming acceptance of what is commonly accepted in the theory of evolution. If you don't accept that, there is absolutely no point in continuing this discussion. Many things that are commonly accepted are wrong, not? I do have a point and there is a general discussion about this you cannot stop fortunately.
  - mkl 7y ago
    > assuming from the very start that all human species ancestors are some kind of ape No one makes that assumption. We know from copious hard evidence that humans and modern apes are closely related, and from more limited hard evidence that there were other animals with features similar to both humans and apes long ago. More recent human ancestors were not apes (they were more human-like), and way distant past ancestors were not apes (they were before even prehistoric apes existed), and none of our ancestors were modern apes (which have evolved into their modern forms since our last common ancestors with them, and those common ancestors were not apes as we know them today). Some human ancestors were prehistoric ape-like animals. Teaching well-established scientific knowledge in schools is essential, and about as far from criminal as it's possible to get. Your "all human species ancestors are some kind of ape" is not well-established scientific knowledge, but your faulty assumption of how you imagine others' knowledge to work. You seem to be starting with the assumption that evolution isn't real (based on a primary school reaction?!), rather than deriving the knowledge that it is real from the evidence. (Yes, I have actually done this. I had a summer job deriving evolutionary relationships directly from genetic data. It's not difficult, and the connections between species just pop out of the DNA sequences with a bit of maths.) Evolution wasn't just made up, it was figured out from the evidence, just like gravity, electricity, chemistry, etc. Like all scientific fields, our knowledge of it is not complete (and never will be).

JumpCrisscross 7y ago

> are you saying that every specie I see is ending up being a human? No scientist argues this. Nor does any scientist argue that humans evolved from modern apes. If you're arguing in good faith, an introductory text on microbial evolution is where you'll find approachable answers. They're on human time scales and adequately describes the multi-path mechanism by which mutation and natural selection lead to speciation and evolution.

tspiteri 7y ago

Are you implying that if we don't know all the details of something, then we just don't know it? That is, are you implying that if we don't know all the details about our evolution, then we should just say that we know nothing and ignore all the things we actually do know are very very likely? That would leave you without any empirical sciences, because there has always something we do not know. When Newtonian mechanics where the best we had, they were incomplete, but they are still extremely useful even now that we know they are incomplete. All empirical sciences are essentially some theory that fits the empirical evidenc, but never completely and perfectly. In my post I'm assuming acceptance of what is commonly accepted in the theory of evolution. If you don't accept that, there is absolutely no point in continuing this discussion.

siempreb 7y ago
> if we don't know all the details about our evolution, then we should just say that we know nothing and ignore all the things we actually do know are very very likely? Nothing wrong with studying and figuring out how things work, you should not look at it with an all or nothing attitude. But assuming from the very start that all human species ancestors are some kind of ape is just so ridiculous that it can only sink in when you are properly conditioned(at school) or properly brainwashed. And teaching it to the kids on school is almost criminal IMHO. You want proof, me too, but we don't have it yet. But I promise you it will not be apes, just as we don't fall of the end of the earth. > In my post I'm assuming acceptance of what is commonly accepted in the theory of evolution. If you don't accept that, there is absolutely no point in continuing this discussion. Many things that are commonly accepted are wrong, not? I do have a point and there is a general discussion about this you cannot stop fortunately.
- mkl 7y ago
  > assuming from the very start that all human species ancestors are some kind of ape No one makes that assumption. We know from copious hard evidence that humans and modern apes are closely related, and from more limited hard evidence that there were other animals with features similar to both humans and apes long ago. More recent human ancestors were not apes (they were more human-like), and way distant past ancestors were not apes (they were before even prehistoric apes existed), and none of our ancestors were modern apes (which have evolved into their modern forms since our last common ancestors with them, and those common ancestors were not apes as we know them today). Some human ancestors were prehistoric ape-like animals. Teaching well-established scientific knowledge in schools is essential, and about as far from criminal as it's possible to get. Your "all human species ancestors are some kind of ape" is not well-established scientific knowledge, but your faulty assumption of how you imagine others' knowledge to work. You seem to be starting with the assumption that evolution isn't real (based on a primary school reaction?!), rather than deriving the knowledge that it is real from the evidence. (Yes, I have actually done this. I had a summer job deriving evolutionary relationships directly from genetic data. It's not difficult, and the connections between species just pop out of the DNA sequences with a bit of maths.) Evolution wasn't just made up, it was figured out from the evidence, just like gravity, electricity, chemistry, etc. Like all scientific fields, our knowledge of it is not complete (and never will be).