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What you call dark patterns are ways to ensure users don't accidentally load malware onto their device. They can definitely do better though - I think a good fi
by aviraldg 7y ago
What you call dark patterns are ways to ensure users don't accidentally load malware onto their device. They can definitely do better though - I think a good first step would a dialog to choose trusted alternative app stores such that installing apps does not require a separate confirmation step (as is currently the case.)
The Google Play Services moves are unfortunate, but required. Most device manufacturers do not provide updates for Android on time, so any code that is part of Android itself becomes harder to update.
- jacobush 7y ago"Most device manufacturers do not provide updates for Android on time" Only because Google lets the device manufacturers off the hook. It's a problem of Googles own invention. Trading away customer security for market share. Adding: very successfully too, this isn't the first time I hear how you should almost feel sorry for Google that they have to put so much into google services instead of Android, all because of the evil device manufacturers! Nothing can be done no... wrings hands Maybe it will change a little but now that Huawei happened.
- janoc 7y agoTrue. And about as helpful as offering a coat to a dead man. It is not a problem that is retroactively fixable by other means than by what they are doing now. They could take Android closed source and put a restrictive license on it demanding that timely updates as a condition of use. All that would achieve is that the large vendors will either stick with the old, still free to use, Android or start working on their own systems they would control again - Samsung's Tizen, Huawei is developing their own, etc. It doesn't take much to piss a large vendor like Samsung off sufficiently to jump ship. They aren't married to Android and have plenty of resources to pour into proprietary alternatives. Google doesn't have much leverage there. The result would be only a market fragmentation, collapse of the app market and loss of market share for Google. That would benefit exactly nobody. Phone vendors are not interested in system updates - that's a pure cost they don't want to pay, they would rather have you buy a new phone or at least not have to spend money and engineering time on preparing patches.
- jacobush 7y agoEverything you said rings true, except the part about proprietary license. That's orthogonal to enforcing updates. That is a contractual issue, not a licensing issue. Google could for instance not allow the manufacturer to connect to their Google Play store unless the manufacturer played ball. But where does this all put us? We are OK with crap, insecure devices being shoved all over the markets? What can be done.
- cameronbrown 7y ago> Google could for instance not allow the manufacturer to connect to their Google Play store unless the manufacturer played ball. Very true but I think the point GP was trying to make was that Samsung is bigger bthan Apple and would have enough influence to get a lot developers to work on its platform instead.
- jacobush 7y agoI guess Apple->Google?
- davinic 7y agoThey already have contracts with licensing for the Play Store and other apps. Those are not included with the base images and require a contract to be in place.
- nske 7y agoI hope manufacturers start adopting Android One widely. It will both take the burden of maintenance off them and make the problem of timely system updates go away for their users.
- Crinus 7y ago> What you call dark patterns are ways to ensure users don't accidentally load malware onto their device. They are still dark patterns, that they also have found excuses for those dark patterns does not make them any better. In fact most of the stuff (not just Google's) we see nowadays that take control away from the users - very often in ways that entrench monopolies and the status quo - use "but security" as their primary defense.
- billman 7y agoTotally agree. Open source software is possible on Android, but it's nowhere near the level of say Linux.
- GoblinSlayer 7y agoAnd they aren't secure, like at all. How much chinese scam is published there. And https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818177 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818177
- judge2020 7y agoAnd it's a pretty good defense. Say those dark patterns are removed - and loading a .apk from the web on a completely new pixel 3 shows the "do you want to install this app?" dialog. What's stopping any of those apps from masquerading as official Google/banking apps and stealing user credentials? Or what if the app is named "get any app free app store" and, along with providing cracked apps from Google Play, it enrolled your android in a botnet?
- izacus 7y ago> What you call dark patterns are ways to ensure users don't accidentally load malware onto their device. They can definitely do better though - I think a good first step would a dialog to choose trusted alternative app stores such that installing apps does not require a separate confirmation step (as is currently the case.) Note that since Android P or so, only explicitly whitelisted apps are even allowed to ask for app install. There's a user setting for each. So this is effectively already in place.