5 ms·

I've always been amazed at how important it appears to be to lie about selling crap. I find that invariably, businesses who compete on price make it iff they sa

I've always been amazed at how important it appears to be to lie about selling crap. I find that invariably, businesses who compete on price make it iff they say it's good stuff, even if everybody knows it isn't. Eg Holland has a number of cheap shoe chains. Schoenenreus and Scapino both breathe an air of cheapness, and one went bust and the other is struggling bad. Their direct competitor Van Haren sells exactly equally crappy shoes, and everybody knows it, but they are thriving, simply because the store feels like a proper high quality shoe store. Or take ALDI, which competes on price and nothing else. In every country I visited has the words "the ALDI principle: low prices, high quality" printed on every storefront and on every page of their paper promo flyers. Granted, little of what they sell is "total crap", but little is of truly high quality either. Their bread goes stale faster and their coffee is bitter. This surprises nobody. It appears to me that this weird dichotomy is the only way to successfully compete on price. Make it perfectly obvious that you're cheap and of mediocre quality at best, while loudly shouting that the quality is high. Nobody believes you, but nobody wants to buy from you if you're honest about what you're selling. I find this surprising because blatant lies don't generally work that well in the long term, so why do they here? I generally hate dishonest messaging. Why don't I mind here? I buy ALDI and Van Haren all the time.

novaRom 7y ago
>ALDI, which competes on price and nothing else They offer lots of good quality things, so better to say they have the best price/quality ratio.
- ajsnigrutin 7y ago
  And not just that.. they optimize sales as far as they can. Everything is in a box (no need to arrange things carefuly on shelves), huge barcodes (faster scanning), larger items on pallets (just bring a new pallet in when old one is empty), just a few people work there and do everything, etc. They sometimes also buy everything you have to get a cheaper price (a friend of mine has a rather large vegetable farm, and they offered to buy literally all the produce to get a lower price.. he doesn't have to deal with sales that year, and they get it cheaper). I like aldi, and buy a bunch of stuff there (i'm not sponsored by them), but at the same time, you know what you're buying - need a drill? They sell a perfectly ok one for really cheap... for a casual user, who uses a drill once every few months. What I don't like is some other stores selling the same items (just branded differently) for 2x the price. If you need a good drill for professional use, there are just a few companies that make them good - and you probably know them all. If you need something cheap, you'll get it cheaper at a store like aldi (or lidl, or similar) than at [hardware store] under their brand, or even some reputable brands. Stupid example: https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/aldi-food-dehydrator https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/aldi-food-dehydrat... This was sold here for 30eur at aldi. Gorenje is/was a reputable brand here, and they sell theirs for 50eur: https://www.mimovrste.com/susilniki-sadja/gorenje-susilnik-hrane-fdk-24-dw https://www.mimovrste.com/susilniki-sadja/gorenje-susilnik-h... Just look at the photos and compare.
clort 7y ago
> Their bread goes stale faster Interestingly, I wonder why this would be a metric of lower quality bread rather than higher? I mean, the obvious way to make the bread last longer would be to pump it full of preservatives, and the white stuff you buy pre-sliced in packs lasts for ages though it is not really bread and the quality is obviously low (or is it? The slices are so smooth, the bubbles so even and the crust not hard at all) When I have been to France and bought a baguette in the morning, obviously it is normally eaten right away because fresh and delicious, but if you leave it until the afternoon it is already stale and chewy. Does that imply low quality? (I do buy some food from Aldi, though I prefer my bread from the baker across the road :)
- dirktheman 7y ago
  French baguette by law can only consist of wheat, yeast, water and salt. Since there are no addatives, the bread goes stale pretty fast. The same goes for supermarket bread vs fresh bread from the baker's: supermarket bread is better suited for freezing and thawing later compared to fresh bread from the bakery. The latter tastes much better, but has to be eaten the same day.
- pvaldes 7y ago
  old bread dried and lasted much longer without any preservative. The difference is in the shift in production from manual to industrial. Less flour and more water and air means keeping the weight with less raw sources, more earnings for the producer, and more mold.
- etage3 7y ago
  Common baguette is regarded as a low quality, industrial version of "real" bread (in France). Some traditional bakeries still use ancient methods (and flour and yeast), the bread is good to eat for more than a week.
- tom_mellior 7y ago
  > I mean, the obvious way to make the bread last longer would be to pump it full of preservatives You can use sourdough, which is also "pumping it full of preservatives", just ones that are produced naturally right in the dough while it ferments. Sourdough bread takes more time, so it would make sense for it to be more expensive. So it makes sense for cheaper bread to go stale faster. AFAIR if you go into a French bakery and order a "tradition" instead of a "baguette" you get a baguette made with sourdough.
Scarblac 7y ago
> Their direct competitor Van Haren sells exactly equally crappy shoes, and everybody knows it, I'm Dutch and I didn't know that. I don't buy shoes frequently enough to notice such things, so I might be fooled by their looks. So the looks matter.
- skrebbel 7y ago
  If you actually dare enter a Scapino, you'll find that the shoes look pretty good. It's just the surroundings that's off-putting.
doyoulikeworms 7y ago
> but they are thriving, simply because the store feels like a proper high quality shoe store. Shopping isn't just about the products themselves. It's also about the experience of shopping, wouldn't you say? If I had to choose between cheap + bad shopping experience and cheap + nice shopping experience, the latter would be a no-brainer!
TMWNN 7y ago
>Eg Holland has a number of cheap shoe chains. Schoenenreus and Scapino both breathe an air of cheapness, and one went bust and the other is struggling bad. Their direct competitor Van Haren sells exactly equally crappy shoes, and everybody knows it, but they are thriving, simply because the store feels like a proper high quality shoe store. Same in the US with Target and Walmart. They sell exactly the same discounted products, in giant stores that carry everything, to exactly the same customers, but Target has cultural cachet (both embodied and mocked as "Tar-jay"), while Walmart and its customers are mocked (if you're nice) and denounced (if you're not) incessantly. Somehow, the giant retail chain corporation based in Arkansas is seen as the embodiment of all that is evil with American business—to the point where San Francisco and New York City don't allow any within their borders—while the giant retail chain corporation based in Minnesota is seen as (relatively) hip and culturally/political acceptable enough to have outlets in the downtowns of said cities.
- ansible 7y ago
  The Walmarts I've been in recently have improved considerably on the presentation front. Shopping at a local Walmart 20 years ago was an unpleasant experience. Junk in the aisles, which were quite narrow, making it hard to maneuver past other shoppers. Insufficient fluorescent lighting. All kinds of things that spoke "cheap". Just overall bad. Nowadays, there's little to distinguish Target from Walmart... aside from the red vs. blue color scheme.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  I've always noticed Targets to be cleaner, better lit, and have more employees available to assist than Walmarts. I also have read many times that Walmart forces manufacturers to cut quality to meet certain price points for products sold in their stores, whereas I haven't heard anything like that about Target. This makes me trust Target more, plus their website doesn't allow resellers.
  - diminoten 7y ago
    Everything Walmart does, Target also does, and as impossible as this sounds, Target cares substantially less about its employees. And walmart.com is built to be a marketplace, like amazon.com, so of course it allows resellers. You can hate what Walmart is and stands for, but to find Target acceptable is inconsistent.
tapland 7y ago
People don't like feeling as if they are buying cheap crap. Making your customers feel comfortable ins stores and on the web is very important.
spuz 7y ago
For what it's worth, I think Ryanair successfully markets itself as both cheap and poor quality. Whenever for example they announce they are considering charging passengers to use the loo, or in fact charging people to carry on a bag, it negatively affects their brand which paradoxically increases their presence in the minds of customers looking to fly in Europe cheaply.
- jmkni 7y ago
  I'm not sure if this is an urban myth or not, but I've heard many times they intentionally had a tacky looking website for years for this reason. Granted their current website is fairly decent/usable.
- skrebbel 7y ago
  Another comment in this thread suggested that they do this because otherwise people will be afraid they skimp on safety. By treating their customers as cattle, they underlines that that's where the savings are and not elsewhere (eg maintenance). I guess the trick only works because it's a safety sensitive business, and the same approach wouldn't work for, say, a supermarket or a jewelry brand.
sacado2 7y ago
I think it's Seth Godin who says (paraphrased): "people don't buy a product, they buy a story". You buy something because the story behind it is good, because it makes you feel good. And the story "you buy crap" does not make you feel good, while "best quality for the price" makes you feel like a clever money saver.
- skrebbel 7y ago
  I had read that quote before, but your comment made me understand it. This is exactly the reply I hoped for when I wrote my comment, thanks!

novaRom 7y ago

>ALDI, which competes on price and nothing else They offer lots of good quality things, so better to say they have the best price/quality ratio.

ajsnigrutin 7y ago
And not just that.. they optimize sales as far as they can. Everything is in a box (no need to arrange things carefuly on shelves), huge barcodes (faster scanning), larger items on pallets (just bring a new pallet in when old one is empty), just a few people work there and do everything, etc. They sometimes also buy everything you have to get a cheaper price (a friend of mine has a rather large vegetable farm, and they offered to buy literally all the produce to get a lower price.. he doesn't have to deal with sales that year, and they get it cheaper). I like aldi, and buy a bunch of stuff there (i'm not sponsored by them), but at the same time, you know what you're buying - need a drill? They sell a perfectly ok one for really cheap... for a casual user, who uses a drill once every few months. What I don't like is some other stores selling the same items (just branded differently) for 2x the price. If you need a good drill for professional use, there are just a few companies that make them good - and you probably know them all. If you need something cheap, you'll get it cheaper at a store like aldi (or lidl, or similar) than at [hardware store] under their brand, or even some reputable brands. Stupid example: https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/aldi-food-dehydrator https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/aldi-food-dehydrat... This was sold here for 30eur at aldi. Gorenje is/was a reputable brand here, and they sell theirs for 50eur: https://www.mimovrste.com/susilniki-sadja/gorenje-susilnik-hrane-fdk-24-dw https://www.mimovrste.com/susilniki-sadja/gorenje-susilnik-h... Just look at the photos and compare.

clort 7y ago

> Their bread goes stale faster Interestingly, I wonder why this would be a metric of lower quality bread rather than higher? I mean, the obvious way to make the bread last longer would be to pump it full of preservatives, and the white stuff you buy pre-sliced in packs lasts for ages though it is not really bread and the quality is obviously low (or is it? The slices are so smooth, the bubbles so even and the crust not hard at all) When I have been to France and bought a baguette in the morning, obviously it is normally eaten right away because fresh and delicious, but if you leave it until the afternoon it is already stale and chewy. Does that imply low quality? (I do buy some food from Aldi, though I prefer my bread from the baker across the road :)

dirktheman 7y ago
French baguette by law can only consist of wheat, yeast, water and salt. Since there are no addatives, the bread goes stale pretty fast. The same goes for supermarket bread vs fresh bread from the baker's: supermarket bread is better suited for freezing and thawing later compared to fresh bread from the bakery. The latter tastes much better, but has to be eaten the same day.
pvaldes 7y ago
old bread dried and lasted much longer without any preservative. The difference is in the shift in production from manual to industrial. Less flour and more water and air means keeping the weight with less raw sources, more earnings for the producer, and more mold.
etage3 7y ago
Common baguette is regarded as a low quality, industrial version of "real" bread (in France). Some traditional bakeries still use ancient methods (and flour and yeast), the bread is good to eat for more than a week.
tom_mellior 7y ago
> I mean, the obvious way to make the bread last longer would be to pump it full of preservatives You can use sourdough, which is also "pumping it full of preservatives", just ones that are produced naturally right in the dough while it ferments. Sourdough bread takes more time, so it would make sense for it to be more expensive. So it makes sense for cheaper bread to go stale faster. AFAIR if you go into a French bakery and order a "tradition" instead of a "baguette" you get a baguette made with sourdough.

Scarblac 7y ago

> Their direct competitor Van Haren sells exactly equally crappy shoes, and everybody knows it, I'm Dutch and I didn't know that. I don't buy shoes frequently enough to notice such things, so I might be fooled by their looks. So the looks matter.

skrebbel 7y ago
If you actually dare enter a Scapino, you'll find that the shoes look pretty good. It's just the surroundings that's off-putting.

doyoulikeworms 7y ago

> but they are thriving, simply because the store feels like a proper high quality shoe store. Shopping isn't just about the products themselves. It's also about the experience of shopping, wouldn't you say? If I had to choose between cheap + bad shopping experience and cheap + nice shopping experience, the latter would be a no-brainer!

TMWNN 7y ago

>Eg Holland has a number of cheap shoe chains. Schoenenreus and Scapino both breathe an air of cheapness, and one went bust and the other is struggling bad. Their direct competitor Van Haren sells exactly equally crappy shoes, and everybody knows it, but they are thriving, simply because the store feels like a proper high quality shoe store. Same in the US with Target and Walmart. They sell exactly the same discounted products, in giant stores that carry everything, to exactly the same customers, but Target has cultural cachet (both embodied and mocked as "Tar-jay"), while Walmart and its customers are mocked (if you're nice) and denounced (if you're not) incessantly. Somehow, the giant retail chain corporation based in Arkansas is seen as the embodiment of all that is evil with American business—to the point where San Francisco and New York City don't allow any within their borders—while the giant retail chain corporation based in Minnesota is seen as (relatively) hip and culturally/political acceptable enough to have outlets in the downtowns of said cities.

ansible 7y ago
The Walmarts I've been in recently have improved considerably on the presentation front. Shopping at a local Walmart 20 years ago was an unpleasant experience. Junk in the aisles, which were quite narrow, making it hard to maneuver past other shoppers. Insufficient fluorescent lighting. All kinds of things that spoke "cheap". Just overall bad. Nowadays, there's little to distinguish Target from Walmart... aside from the red vs. blue color scheme.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
I've always noticed Targets to be cleaner, better lit, and have more employees available to assist than Walmarts. I also have read many times that Walmart forces manufacturers to cut quality to meet certain price points for products sold in their stores, whereas I haven't heard anything like that about Target. This makes me trust Target more, plus their website doesn't allow resellers.
- diminoten 7y ago
  Everything Walmart does, Target also does, and as impossible as this sounds, Target cares substantially less about its employees. And walmart.com is built to be a marketplace, like amazon.com, so of course it allows resellers. You can hate what Walmart is and stands for, but to find Target acceptable is inconsistent.

tapland 7y ago

People don't like feeling as if they are buying cheap crap. Making your customers feel comfortable ins stores and on the web is very important.

spuz 7y ago

For what it's worth, I think Ryanair successfully markets itself as both cheap and poor quality. Whenever for example they announce they are considering charging passengers to use the loo, or in fact charging people to carry on a bag, it negatively affects their brand which paradoxically increases their presence in the minds of customers looking to fly in Europe cheaply.

jmkni 7y ago
I'm not sure if this is an urban myth or not, but I've heard many times they intentionally had a tacky looking website for years for this reason. Granted their current website is fairly decent/usable.
skrebbel 7y ago
Another comment in this thread suggested that they do this because otherwise people will be afraid they skimp on safety. By treating their customers as cattle, they underlines that that's where the savings are and not elsewhere (eg maintenance). I guess the trick only works because it's a safety sensitive business, and the same approach wouldn't work for, say, a supermarket or a jewelry brand.

sacado2 7y ago

I think it's Seth Godin who says (paraphrased): "people don't buy a product, they buy a story". You buy something because the story behind it is good, because it makes you feel good. And the story "you buy crap" does not make you feel good, while "best quality for the price" makes you feel like a clever money saver.

skrebbel 7y ago
I had read that quote before, but your comment made me understand it. This is exactly the reply I hoped for when I wrote my comment, thanks!