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If it turns out PRC messes with HK's traffic, PRC is going to lose a load of trust over this. Businesses relying on VPN'ing home to function, those believe its

by tony 7y ago

If it turns out PRC messes with HK's traffic, PRC is going to lose a load of trust over this. Businesses relying on VPN'ing home to function, those believe its a human right to choose their leadership. Why shouldn't the fragrant harbor enjoy same autonomy the rest of these received? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_ga... What's there to fear? Do Hong Kongers not share the same kindred blood, language (as far as Cantonese, at least in Guangdong), culture. Why not let Hong Konger's vote for independence? Scotland had a chance in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_ref.... What keeps it together? I don't know. Trust? Respect? Is there trust and respect between HK <-> China? I've been between GZ/HK many times. They're different places. If PRC wants to be an example to others of their own philosophy and system, they should do it by building trust over time, not by using a hammer.

tthhuuiff 7y ago
> Why not let Hong Konger’s vote for independence? Probably the same reason Spain doesn’t let Catalonia vote for independence.
- sooheon 7y ago
  Or why America literally fought a war over secession.
  - _iyig 7y ago
    Does Hong Kong practice chattel slavery? That was the reason for the American Civil War.
- tony 7y ago
  I'm not an expert on Catolonia and Spain, but I don't see it that way. I've likened Hong Kong to Singapore. It's leaning toward being fully independent and the momentum seems unstoppable. The question I'm wondering is why stop at HK? I want my access to KuGou back. That's what did it for me. Spain and Catalonia both use the Euro. Catalonia has its own judicial system, but I believe they both are set to the EU in terms of bigger picture things. HK and PRC have separate currencies. HK uses traditional chinese characters and speaks Cantonese. Not everyone in neighboring Guangdong speaks Cantonese, and they use simplified chinese characters. Hong Kong has its own famous movies. It has its own cellphone companies and ISPs. Its own stock market. They drive on different sides of the road (left in HK, right in China). HK has trams. HK has its own customs. The legal system is in english and its a common law system and dramatically different than China's.
  - ridaj 7y ago
    What momentum towards independence? Everything since the handover has been going against independence. Maybe the difference with Singapore is this cold reality: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/21/hong-kongs-inconvenient-truth/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/21/hong-kongs-inconvenient...
    - morningseagulls 7y ago
      The article notes: >the city looks to the mainland for most of its resources. So does Singapore, which looks to Peninsular Malaysia for most of its resources (water and food). That's the main problem with that opinion piece. Here's the real difference: - Singapore was expelled from the federation of Malaysia by politicians keen to keep their racialist affirmative action policy. AFAIK Malaysia has no official irredentist policy when it comes to Singapore. - Hong Kong is in no danger of being expelled from the PRC because the PRC has an officially proclaimed irredentist policy regarding Hong Kong.
      - ridaj 7y ago
        Sure, the dependency on resources exists in the case of Singapore as well, but the ratio of military capability between Singapore and Malaysia is much more balanced than that between HK and the PRC (since it's 0).
        morningseagulls 7y ago
        The relative military capabilities of the two parties, like the resource dependency, is a side issue. Kuala Lumpur shows no sign of wanting Singapore back because Singapore would significantly alter Malaysia's demographics and push for racial equality, which is not what the ruling Malay political class wants. Beijing, however, sees every reason to keep HK. Not just the irredentism: have a look at the map and you will see that HK is on the NE entrance of the Pearl River. HK may not be as economically important as before, but just like Macau on the other side of the mouth of the Pearl River, it is of immense geostrategic importance to the security of the river delta region.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
nitwit005 7y ago
You often get the impression that leaders are more upset about the fact that people are defying them than any underlying issue with people wanting different governance. You'll sometimes see leaders proudly support independence movements abroad while insisting people pushing the same sort of ideas at home are criminals or terrorists.

by tony 7y ago

tthhuuiff 7y ago

> Why not let Hong Konger’s vote for independence? Probably the same reason Spain doesn’t let Catalonia vote for independence.

sooheon 7y ago
Or why America literally fought a war over secession.
- _iyig 7y ago
  Does Hong Kong practice chattel slavery? That was the reason for the American Civil War.
tony 7y ago
I'm not an expert on Catolonia and Spain, but I don't see it that way. I've likened Hong Kong to Singapore. It's leaning toward being fully independent and the momentum seems unstoppable. The question I'm wondering is why stop at HK? I want my access to KuGou back. That's what did it for me. Spain and Catalonia both use the Euro. Catalonia has its own judicial system, but I believe they both are set to the EU in terms of bigger picture things. HK and PRC have separate currencies. HK uses traditional chinese characters and speaks Cantonese. Not everyone in neighboring Guangdong speaks Cantonese, and they use simplified chinese characters. Hong Kong has its own famous movies. It has its own cellphone companies and ISPs. Its own stock market. They drive on different sides of the road (left in HK, right in China). HK has trams. HK has its own customs. The legal system is in english and its a common law system and dramatically different than China's.
- ridaj 7y ago
  What momentum towards independence? Everything since the handover has been going against independence. Maybe the difference with Singapore is this cold reality: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/21/hong-kongs-inconvenient-truth/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/08/21/hong-kongs-inconvenient...
  - morningseagulls 7y ago
    The article notes: >the city looks to the mainland for most of its resources. So does Singapore, which looks to Peninsular Malaysia for most of its resources (water and food). That's the main problem with that opinion piece. Here's the real difference: - Singapore was expelled from the federation of Malaysia by politicians keen to keep their racialist affirmative action policy. AFAIK Malaysia has no official irredentist policy when it comes to Singapore. - Hong Kong is in no danger of being expelled from the PRC because the PRC has an officially proclaimed irredentist policy regarding Hong Kong.
    - ridaj 7y ago
      Sure, the dependency on resources exists in the case of Singapore as well, but the ratio of military capability between Singapore and Malaysia is much more balanced than that between HK and the PRC (since it's 0).
      - morningseagulls 7y ago
        The relative military capabilities of the two parties, like the resource dependency, is a side issue. Kuala Lumpur shows no sign of wanting Singapore back because Singapore would significantly alter Malaysia's demographics and push for racial equality, which is not what the ruling Malay political class wants. Beijing, however, sees every reason to keep HK. Not just the irredentism: have a look at the map and you will see that HK is on the NE entrance of the Pearl River. HK may not be as economically important as before, but just like Macau on the other side of the mouth of the Pearl River, it is of immense geostrategic importance to the security of the river delta region.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

nitwit005 7y ago

You often get the impression that leaders are more upset about the fact that people are defying them than any underlying issue with people wanting different governance. You'll sometimes see leaders proudly support independence movements abroad while insisting people pushing the same sort of ideas at home are criminals or terrorists.