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I'm glad that others are voicing the same issues I'm experiencing. Sometimes I wonder if I'm taking crazy pills. My solution has been to place an Apple bluetoo

I'm glad that others are voicing the same issues I'm experiencing. Sometimes I wonder if I'm taking crazy pills. My solution has been to place an Apple bluetooth keyboard -on top- of my 15" MBP keyboard and that seems to work pretty well, but wow, it shouldn't have come to this...

tenpies 7y ago
Thankfully I get to make my own hardware decisions, so I've made a point of ordering a new MBP every time a new revision is released, and promptly returning it to Apple the next day when I realize the keyboard is still absolute rubbish. I would like to think that maybe if some person at Apple runs a report for returns and see that "keyboard" accounts for a huge majority of returns, they may actually act with some semblance of haste.
madeofpalk 7y ago
??? People has been voicing this for years. While it had been a common complaint before, Casey Johnson really blew the story up in 2017 https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is... WSJ: "Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm" https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/ https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-mac...
hunta2097 7y ago
I've been fighting my MBP15 keyboard for so long. Eventually I put a USB PC keyboard on my desk with a matching keyboard map. Abso-fucking-lute bliss! I think my productivity has gone up literally 80%
endorphone 7y ago
This has been a hugely reported upon issue, so much so that Apple has a whole extended warranty and keyboard replacement program in place. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+apple+keyboard https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+... Surprised that anyone has missed this, as it has been front-paged on HN dozens if not hundreds of time. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/en-ca/keyboard-service-program-for...
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  And yet even in this story, there are multiple comments a la "Yawn. I can't believe this is an issue. Apple shouldn't be paying attention to niche complainers."
  - parasubvert 7y ago
    Because the level of vitriol is not commensurate with the problem? They'll replace the keyboards, most people don't have issues. (I know I don't, 2+ years in). Nerd entitlement rage is monotonous. The latest models 4th gen keyboards are pretty much fine.
    - GordonS 7y ago
      Couple of things though: - they'll only replace the keyboard for up to 4 years after the purchase date - they'll replace it with the same faulty keyboard, so there's a good chance it'll have the same fault again, only once it's put of warranty
      - endorphone 7y ago
        "they'll replace it with the same faulty keyboard" We know they've gone through several revisions that have purportedly reduced the incidents of problems, and they'll likely go through more improvements. When you get your keyboard replaced they will use the better variant.
gnicholas 7y ago
Can't believe I haven't thought of this! I've been using an Apple BT keyboard with my MBP but never thought to stack it right on top of the butterfly keyboard. I can confirm that it fits the 13" MPB, just like your 15"!
- gilesgate 7y ago
  Haven't tried that, but it really sounds it would be terrible to the wrists after prolonged use (in which case "prolonged" would mean longer than 10-15 minutes).
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Update: my Apple BT keyboard (which is many years old -- it takes 3 AA batteries, not 2) slightly covers the top of the trackpad on my 13" MBP. This means that the palm rejection algorithm does not work as well. I may be able to get it to work for me by just adjusting how I hold my hands when typing, but it's not a clear home-run with my smaller laptop and possibly larger keyboard. I would seriously consider getting a smaller BT keyboard to make this work, though.
TMWNN 7y ago
>My solution has been to place an Apple bluetooth keyboard -on top- of my 15" MBP keyboard and that seems to work pretty well, but wow, it shouldn't have come to this... I did that with my 2008 unibody Macbook Pro (yes, Macbook keyboards also sometimes broke pre-2016), which also suffered from EM209 [1] (second time, beyond Apple's free-fix period). I used heavy-duty rubber bands to both hold the screen together along the non-visible borders, and affix the wireless keyboard over the computer's. Certainly something to never ever show anyone else, but completely functional with the exception of the inability to close up the computer. Only after failing to start one day did I replace it with the 2012 non-Retina I am typing on; come to think of it, it's now exactly as old as the 2008 when it completely died, albeit in full working order. (It did need a keyboard repair. I am hard on keyboards.) [1] https://randyzwitch.com/broken-macbook-pro-hinge-fixed-free/ https://randyzwitch.com/broken-macbook-pro-hinge-fixed-free/

tenpies 7y ago

Thankfully I get to make my own hardware decisions, so I've made a point of ordering a new MBP every time a new revision is released, and promptly returning it to Apple the next day when I realize the keyboard is still absolute rubbish. I would like to think that maybe if some person at Apple runs a report for returns and see that "keyboard" accounts for a huge majority of returns, they may actually act with some semblance of haste.

madeofpalk 7y ago

??? People has been voicing this for years. While it had been a common complaint before, Casey Johnson really blew the story up in 2017 https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is... WSJ: "Appl Still Hasn’t Fixd Its MacBook Kyboad Problm" https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-macbook-keyboard-problem/ https://www.wsj.com/graphics/apple-still-hasnt-fixed-its-mac...

hunta2097 7y ago

I've been fighting my MBP15 keyboard for so long. Eventually I put a USB PC keyboard on my desk with a matching keyboard map. Abso-fucking-lute bliss! I think my productivity has gone up literally 80%

endorphone 7y ago

This has been a hugely reported upon issue, so much so that Apple has a whole extended warranty and keyboard replacement program in place. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+apple+keyboard https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+... Surprised that anyone has missed this, as it has been front-paged on HN dozens if not hundreds of time. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/keyboard-service-program-for-mac-notebooks https://support.apple.com/en-ca/keyboard-service-program-for...

FireBeyond 7y ago
And yet even in this story, there are multiple comments a la "Yawn. I can't believe this is an issue. Apple shouldn't be paying attention to niche complainers."
- parasubvert 7y ago
  Because the level of vitriol is not commensurate with the problem? They'll replace the keyboards, most people don't have issues. (I know I don't, 2+ years in). Nerd entitlement rage is monotonous. The latest models 4th gen keyboards are pretty much fine.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    Couple of things though: - they'll only replace the keyboard for up to 4 years after the purchase date - they'll replace it with the same faulty keyboard, so there's a good chance it'll have the same fault again, only once it's put of warranty
    - endorphone 7y ago
      "they'll replace it with the same faulty keyboard" We know they've gone through several revisions that have purportedly reduced the incidents of problems, and they'll likely go through more improvements. When you get your keyboard replaced they will use the better variant.

gnicholas 7y ago

Can't believe I haven't thought of this! I've been using an Apple BT keyboard with my MBP but never thought to stack it right on top of the butterfly keyboard. I can confirm that it fits the 13" MPB, just like your 15"!

gilesgate 7y ago
Haven't tried that, but it really sounds it would be terrible to the wrists after prolonged use (in which case "prolonged" would mean longer than 10-15 minutes).
gnicholas 7y ago
Update: my Apple BT keyboard (which is many years old -- it takes 3 AA batteries, not 2) slightly covers the top of the trackpad on my 13" MBP. This means that the palm rejection algorithm does not work as well. I may be able to get it to work for me by just adjusting how I hold my hands when typing, but it's not a clear home-run with my smaller laptop and possibly larger keyboard. I would seriously consider getting a smaller BT keyboard to make this work, though.

TMWNN 7y ago

>My solution has been to place an Apple bluetooth keyboard -on top- of my 15" MBP keyboard and that seems to work pretty well, but wow, it shouldn't have come to this... I did that with my 2008 unibody Macbook Pro (yes, Macbook keyboards also sometimes broke pre-2016), which also suffered from EM209 [1] (second time, beyond Apple's free-fix period). I used heavy-duty rubber bands to both hold the screen together along the non-visible borders, and affix the wireless keyboard over the computer's. Certainly something to never ever show anyone else, but completely functional with the exception of the inability to close up the computer. Only after failing to start one day did I replace it with the 2012 non-Retina I am typing on; come to think of it, it's now exactly as old as the 2008 when it completely died, albeit in full working order. (It did need a keyboard repair. I am hard on keyboards.) [1] https://randyzwitch.com/broken-macbook-pro-hinge-fixed-free/ https://randyzwitch.com/broken-macbook-pro-hinge-fixed-free/