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The problem with waiting for another president is that both Democrats and Republicans hate China alike. And China can't afford to wait because they are sitting

The problem with waiting for another president is that both Democrats and Republicans hate China alike. And China can't afford to wait because they are sitting on a demographic time bomb due to 1 child policy (10 years left or so). So I do think Xi's approach is going to undo a lot of progress that China has made under previous presidents (when they still had a concept of term limits). I'm really rooting for India here, the largest democracy with fast growing economy and very young population. Even if 21st century is going to be dominated by Asia I'd rather see India take the leading role than China. Among other things it would also make sure that East Asian disdain for darker skinned people and China's obsession with surveillance won't become a dominant global culture.

Despegar 7y ago
>Among other things it would also make sure that East Asian disdain for darker skinned people India is no panacea on this front. Modi is a Hindu nationalist and if you're expecting India to be a democracy in the vein of Western liberal democracy with enlightenment values, you're in for a surprise.
- sremani 7y ago
  India is not perfect, its democracy is full of cacophony with racial and tribal undertones. But once the results are out the transfer of power is clean and peaceful. It is not Norway or Sweden, but its not an autocracy. India built its version of Democracy that is worth it. Modi and Hindu Nationalism are the present - they were not there in power 7 years ago and 7 years from now, a new PM and Party will come. India is no Turkey and farther away from China.
  - sachdevap 7y ago
    Thank you for this. The Western supremacist attitude of GP's comment really bothered me too.
    - sprafa 7y ago
      What’s western supremacist about pointing out the ethnic and religious nationalism of the current Indian government
      - sachdevap 7y ago
        > a democracy in the vein of Western liberal democracy with enlightenment values I might add that I don't disagree with the Indian government being Hindu nationalistic, and I am happy to discuss the flaws of the Indian government, but not under this notion that we are somehow in the same bucket as China, and that only the west is holy in the world.
        Despegar 7y ago
        >but not under this notion that we are somehow in the same bucket as China I didn't say India was the same as China. >and that only the west is holy in the world. If you're a minority of any kind, you're better off living in a Western liberal democracy than anywhere else in the world. That doesn't make it "holy", but that does make it better.
        sachdevap 7y ago
        Umm ... Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis are all minorities in India. India has it's own share of troubles in minority relations, but they are no different from the race issues dealt with in many western democracies. Does the US count as a Western liberal democracy? Because the incarceration rates of Black people in the US would certainly suggest otherwise. The biggest factor in how well off people are in any country is economics, so unless you match up the economic factors, making any comparison of this sort is not useful. India's treatment of minorities is much better compared to the treatment of minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. While China is not a fair comparison because of different economic models, India does much better than China none the less.
        gingabriska 7y ago
  - satya71 7y ago
    I also once thought this. But I'm not sure anymore. They're creating their own Rohingyas by declaring 4m people non-citizens [1]. One state was dissolved and remains under curfew under a constitutional sleight-of-hand (the federally appointed governor assented for the people to dissolve the state). The Supreme Court doesn't appear to have the will to stand up to the govt. In fact, it actively encouraged the disenfranchisement of citizens. The press has been largely brought in line. [3] India may be well on the path to becoming a Turkey. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-crackdown-in-india-on-suspected-illegal-immigration-could-leave-millions-stateless/2019/08/26/4f46b3a0-b471-11e9-8e94-71a35969e4d8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-crackdow... [2] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/08/10/modis-revocation-of-kashmirs-autonomy https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/08/10/modis-revocatio... [3] https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/08/22/when-indias-government-abuses-power-the-media-cheer https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/08/22/when-indias-govern...
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Press Council of India is supporting the curbs on media reporting in Kashmir. Supreme court of India is giving passes to meet people in curfewed Kashmir, and asking them to just meet and not do anything else (i.e. report on human right violations). It is amazingly surreal to see this repeat again. Anyhow, how can a democracy use medieval rule like curfew on 10 Million people. Entire province disconnected from the world and themselves.
      - yumraj 7y ago
        J&K is in a traditional state and while the current state is not desirable it is somewhat necessary due to the potential for terrorist attacks. China on the other hand has put entire state's population in concentration camps and changed demography in other occupied territories such as Tibet.
        iamshs 7y ago
        So why are politicians detained? Those who swore on Indian constitution? The reason here is not fear of terrorism, because the security theatre exists perpetually, but India does not want its suppression of a minority population to be aired out openly in media esp western and social media.
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Hindu Nationalism has been present in India since British times. In Punjab, they used to be called Arya Samaj (Society of the Aryans) and majority of their ideas have been adapted today by RSS. In 1984, anti Sikh pogrom Hindu Nationalists supported killings of Sikhs on the ground, supporting such acts by distributing motivated pamphlets among politicians, and by calling for ‘de-Turbanization of Sikhs’. In 1992, Babri mosque was demolished by Hindu Nationalists. 2002 Gujarat pogrom against Muslims was perpetrated by Hindu Nationalists. It is disingenuous to say that Hindu Nationalism is a recent phenomenon of last 7 years. It has a long history by now in India.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      Minor corrections: Arya Samaj has nothing to do with RSS. It's a Hindu reformist religious movement. 1984 was perpetrated by Congress supporters, not BJP. Babri mosque, like many other sites, was built after demolishing Hindu sites. Don't Hindus have any rights? Gujrat riots happened after train full of Hindu pilgrims, including women and children, was burnt by Muslims.
      - iamshs 7y ago
        Arya Samaj started as a reformist movement but very quickly morphed into a Hindu Nationalism movement. RSS shares its ideological underpinnings with arya samaj. 1984 was supported by Hindu Nationalists, RSS idealogue Nanaji Deshmukh wrote that Sikhs need to be taught lesson and the pogrom was a right lesson for them. No support has been found that Babri Mosque was built on a demolished Hindu site. Even if it is, democracy doesn’t work to please majority. To you are justifying Gujarat riots? Each point of yours is whataboutism.
    - readme3 7y ago
      Unfortunate you use the word arya and then fud it just like the Aryan invasion theory that is stoked up to prop up the Dravidian nationalism. The word Arya is different from the racial Aryan. Arya in sanskrit means , the seeker of truth. I dont want to go into the details here , but there are places where seekers are called arya or arya-puthras (kind of ties down to oh-sons-of-truth as referenced in the Gita).
- lappet 7y ago
  > vein of Western liberal democracy with enlightenment values I would say that ship has sailed with Trump
- sbmthakur 7y ago
  Modi is a Hindu nationalist who is democratically elected. While I appreciate what Western democracies are doing w.r.t. Human Rights, they have their fair share of bad treatment of minorities. Racial discrimination comes to my mind.
m0zg 7y ago
Biden's son got > $1B from the Chinese not so long ago to run a private equity firm. If anyone thinks he's got that money for his good looks, they're very naive. The Chinese got Joe by the balls, he's very "friendly" to them, publicly as well. And Bernie can't tell a business negotiation from a hole in the ground. Those two are the most likely candidates at the moment. Needless to say, the "CEO move" of the next person in the WH will be to "undo" just about everything the previous president has accomplished, and this in particular will be reasonably easy to undo (because the other side is eager to return to the status quo whereby they just steal our IP and fleece us to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars a year through currency manipulation). On top of that the next president will be under intense pressure from their corporate donors to undo it.
- sachdevap 7y ago
  > previous president has accomplished I think "accomplished" comes with positive connotations. To successfully achieve a task, you need a task with a defined goal. And unless the goal was global chaos, there are no accomplishments here.
  - sremani 7y ago
    Trump extracted transactional Trade treaties with Canada, Mexico, South Korea and Japan. Name another president who re-shaped American trade with that many treaties - I cannot think of any one in the past 50 years. An over-extended america wants vacation - stylistically it make look a bit different but substantively "american retrenchment" is baked in 2016 no matter who the president is.
    - sprafa 7y ago
      What were the fundamental changes in the treaties that make you think it was a success?
- deogeo 7y ago
  > Biden's son got > $1B from the Chinese not so long ago to run a private equity firm. I was surprised how little attention that story (https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/inside-the-shady-private-equity-firm-run-by-kerry-and-bidens-kids/ https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/inside-the-shady-private-equit...) got in the media.
hanniabu 7y ago
> due to 1 child policy (10 years left or so) If I understood this comment correctly, after another 10 years the 1 child policy will no longer be in effect? What are the chances it'll be extended? What are they doing to prepare for the population boom?
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  The current issue right now is that as China develops they're going through the same demographic decline a lot of other developed nations are going through, and it's not certain that removing this outdated cap on their population growth will actually solve their demographic problems. They got rid of their one child policy 3 years ago when they realized there was a population crunch in their labor force coming.
- avocado4 7y ago
  Due to past 1 child policy China's average age is on par with US now, and much higher than other developing nations. But the level of development is still very low relatively speaking. 10 years from now they'll have 400 million old people, plus another 100 million sick from pollution and other public health issues. From my conversations with party members their plan is to automate the doctors by then.
  - gingabriska 7y ago
    But isn't it basically take care of by automation? They simply do not need that many workers now.
birdyrooster 7y ago
I would walk back the commentary about Democrats and Republicans hating China. They have issues with China’s government, but it’s unfair to lump all of Democrats, Republicans and China into a single sentence.
- mc32 7y ago
  I dunno, the context was around mr Xi (not the Chinese pop at large) and in that context poster could have a point.

Despegar 7y ago

>Among other things it would also make sure that East Asian disdain for darker skinned people India is no panacea on this front. Modi is a Hindu nationalist and if you're expecting India to be a democracy in the vein of Western liberal democracy with enlightenment values, you're in for a surprise.

sremani 7y ago
India is not perfect, its democracy is full of cacophony with racial and tribal undertones. But once the results are out the transfer of power is clean and peaceful. It is not Norway or Sweden, but its not an autocracy. India built its version of Democracy that is worth it. Modi and Hindu Nationalism are the present - they were not there in power 7 years ago and 7 years from now, a new PM and Party will come. India is no Turkey and farther away from China.
- sachdevap 7y ago
  Thank you for this. The Western supremacist attitude of GP's comment really bothered me too.
  - sprafa 7y ago
    What’s western supremacist about pointing out the ethnic and religious nationalism of the current Indian government
    - sachdevap 7y ago
      > a democracy in the vein of Western liberal democracy with enlightenment values I might add that I don't disagree with the Indian government being Hindu nationalistic, and I am happy to discuss the flaws of the Indian government, but not under this notion that we are somehow in the same bucket as China, and that only the west is holy in the world.
      - Despegar 7y ago
        >but not under this notion that we are somehow in the same bucket as China I didn't say India was the same as China. >and that only the west is holy in the world. If you're a minority of any kind, you're better off living in a Western liberal democracy than anywhere else in the world. That doesn't make it "holy", but that does make it better.
        sachdevap 7y ago
        Umm ... Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Parsis are all minorities in India. India has it's own share of troubles in minority relations, but they are no different from the race issues dealt with in many western democracies. Does the US count as a Western liberal democracy? Because the incarceration rates of Black people in the US would certainly suggest otherwise. The biggest factor in how well off people are in any country is economics, so unless you match up the economic factors, making any comparison of this sort is not useful. India's treatment of minorities is much better compared to the treatment of minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka. While China is not a fair comparison because of different economic models, India does much better than China none the less.
        gingabriska 7y ago
- satya71 7y ago
  I also once thought this. But I'm not sure anymore. They're creating their own Rohingyas by declaring 4m people non-citizens [1]. One state was dissolved and remains under curfew under a constitutional sleight-of-hand (the federally appointed governor assented for the people to dissolve the state). The Supreme Court doesn't appear to have the will to stand up to the govt. In fact, it actively encouraged the disenfranchisement of citizens. The press has been largely brought in line. [3] India may be well on the path to becoming a Turkey. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-crackdown-in-india-on-suspected-illegal-immigration-could-leave-millions-stateless/2019/08/26/4f46b3a0-b471-11e9-8e94-71a35969e4d8_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/a-crackdow... [2] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/08/10/modis-revocation-of-kashmirs-autonomy https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/08/10/modis-revocatio... [3] https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/08/22/when-indias-government-abuses-power-the-media-cheer https://www.economist.com/asia/2019/08/22/when-indias-govern...
  - iamshs 7y ago
    Press Council of India is supporting the curbs on media reporting in Kashmir. Supreme court of India is giving passes to meet people in curfewed Kashmir, and asking them to just meet and not do anything else (i.e. report on human right violations). It is amazingly surreal to see this repeat again. Anyhow, how can a democracy use medieval rule like curfew on 10 Million people. Entire province disconnected from the world and themselves.
    - yumraj 7y ago
      J&K is in a traditional state and while the current state is not desirable it is somewhat necessary due to the potential for terrorist attacks. China on the other hand has put entire state's population in concentration camps and changed demography in other occupied territories such as Tibet.
      - iamshs 7y ago
        So why are politicians detained? Those who swore on Indian constitution? The reason here is not fear of terrorism, because the security theatre exists perpetually, but India does not want its suppression of a minority population to be aired out openly in media esp western and social media.
- iamshs 7y ago
  Hindu Nationalism has been present in India since British times. In Punjab, they used to be called Arya Samaj (Society of the Aryans) and majority of their ideas have been adapted today by RSS. In 1984, anti Sikh pogrom Hindu Nationalists supported killings of Sikhs on the ground, supporting such acts by distributing motivated pamphlets among politicians, and by calling for ‘de-Turbanization of Sikhs’. In 1992, Babri mosque was demolished by Hindu Nationalists. 2002 Gujarat pogrom against Muslims was perpetrated by Hindu Nationalists. It is disingenuous to say that Hindu Nationalism is a recent phenomenon of last 7 years. It has a long history by now in India.
  - yumraj 7y ago
    Minor corrections: Arya Samaj has nothing to do with RSS. It's a Hindu reformist religious movement. 1984 was perpetrated by Congress supporters, not BJP. Babri mosque, like many other sites, was built after demolishing Hindu sites. Don't Hindus have any rights? Gujrat riots happened after train full of Hindu pilgrims, including women and children, was burnt by Muslims.
    - iamshs 7y ago
      Arya Samaj started as a reformist movement but very quickly morphed into a Hindu Nationalism movement. RSS shares its ideological underpinnings with arya samaj. 1984 was supported by Hindu Nationalists, RSS idealogue Nanaji Deshmukh wrote that Sikhs need to be taught lesson and the pogrom was a right lesson for them. No support has been found that Babri Mosque was built on a demolished Hindu site. Even if it is, democracy doesn’t work to please majority. To you are justifying Gujarat riots? Each point of yours is whataboutism.
  - readme3 7y ago
    Unfortunate you use the word arya and then fud it just like the Aryan invasion theory that is stoked up to prop up the Dravidian nationalism. The word Arya is different from the racial Aryan. Arya in sanskrit means , the seeker of truth. I dont want to go into the details here , but there are places where seekers are called arya or arya-puthras (kind of ties down to oh-sons-of-truth as referenced in the Gita).
lappet 7y ago
> vein of Western liberal democracy with enlightenment values I would say that ship has sailed with Trump
sbmthakur 7y ago
Modi is a Hindu nationalist who is democratically elected. While I appreciate what Western democracies are doing w.r.t. Human Rights, they have their fair share of bad treatment of minorities. Racial discrimination comes to my mind.

m0zg 7y ago

Biden's son got > $1B from the Chinese not so long ago to run a private equity firm. If anyone thinks he's got that money for his good looks, they're very naive. The Chinese got Joe by the balls, he's very "friendly" to them, publicly as well. And Bernie can't tell a business negotiation from a hole in the ground. Those two are the most likely candidates at the moment. Needless to say, the "CEO move" of the next person in the WH will be to "undo" just about everything the previous president has accomplished, and this in particular will be reasonably easy to undo (because the other side is eager to return to the status quo whereby they just steal our IP and fleece us to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars a year through currency manipulation). On top of that the next president will be under intense pressure from their corporate donors to undo it.

sachdevap 7y ago
> previous president has accomplished I think "accomplished" comes with positive connotations. To successfully achieve a task, you need a task with a defined goal. And unless the goal was global chaos, there are no accomplishments here.
- sremani 7y ago
  Trump extracted transactional Trade treaties with Canada, Mexico, South Korea and Japan. Name another president who re-shaped American trade with that many treaties - I cannot think of any one in the past 50 years. An over-extended america wants vacation - stylistically it make look a bit different but substantively "american retrenchment" is baked in 2016 no matter who the president is.
  - sprafa 7y ago
    What were the fundamental changes in the treaties that make you think it was a success?
deogeo 7y ago
> Biden's son got > $1B from the Chinese not so long ago to run a private equity firm. I was surprised how little attention that story (https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/inside-the-shady-private-equity-firm-run-by-kerry-and-bidens-kids/ https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/inside-the-shady-private-equit...) got in the media.

hanniabu 7y ago

> due to 1 child policy (10 years left or so) If I understood this comment correctly, after another 10 years the 1 child policy will no longer be in effect? What are the chances it'll be extended? What are they doing to prepare for the population boom?

magicsmoke 7y ago
The current issue right now is that as China develops they're going through the same demographic decline a lot of other developed nations are going through, and it's not certain that removing this outdated cap on their population growth will actually solve their demographic problems. They got rid of their one child policy 3 years ago when they realized there was a population crunch in their labor force coming.
avocado4 7y ago
Due to past 1 child policy China's average age is on par with US now, and much higher than other developing nations. But the level of development is still very low relatively speaking. 10 years from now they'll have 400 million old people, plus another 100 million sick from pollution and other public health issues. From my conversations with party members their plan is to automate the doctors by then.
- gingabriska 7y ago
  But isn't it basically take care of by automation? They simply do not need that many workers now.

birdyrooster 7y ago

I would walk back the commentary about Democrats and Republicans hating China. They have issues with China’s government, but it’s unfair to lump all of Democrats, Republicans and China into a single sentence.

mc32 7y ago
I dunno, the context was around mr Xi (not the Chinese pop at large) and in that context poster could have a point.