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If Apple cares about privacy, why was that not opt-in to begin with? Apple has to invent a time machine before you'll offer any forgiveness? They made a mistak

If Apple cares about privacy, why was that not opt-in to begin with? Apple has to invent a time machine before you'll offer any forgiveness? They made a mistake, if previous behavior was so egregious that no improvements going forward will suffice, then from where I stand the only remaining option is to use other vendors.

izacus 7y ago
Well they can perhaps also stop doing business with Chinese government and then continue preaching about privacy. They've proven flexible with their morals when it came to money too many times to be trusted. Just like any other corporation.
- Tomte 7y ago
  Maybe they should also stop doing business with the American government? ;-)
- threeseed 7y ago
  If Apple stopped doing business with China they would have to stop selling products all together. There just isn't the manufacturing capability anywhere else in the world to compete with China. It's a shame that the world outsourced such an important skill but that's where we are.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    Other phone makers manage to manufacture phones in China without handing all Chinese customer data to the Chinese government. It is possible to manufacture in China without selling to Chinese consumers.
- bryan_w 7y ago
  Don't forget that they take google's money and put them as the default search provider in safari. Apple loves privacy, but they love money more.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
GP never said there's anything Apple could do at this point to win them back. IMO, a company that really took privacy seriously would never, ever have let humans listen to Siri recordings without explicit user content. There is in fact nothing Apple can say post-mortem to change this. Now, whether any of the mainstream alternatives are better for privacy is a legitimate question—but at this point, I don't think anyone should choose Apple because of their privacy claims. If there are no more incidents in the next five years, maybe we can reconsider at that point, but that is how long it should take for Apple to regain trust. (That, or Apple opening their systems to public audit, which will never happen.)
- GeekyBear 7y ago
  Until Google gives us a way to turn off their buying a copy of everyone's brick and mortar store credit/debit card transaction data, they cannot be taken seriously as a privacy option. >Google has been able to track your location using Google Maps for a long time. Since 2014, it has used that information to provide advertisers with information on how often people visit their stores. But store visits aren’t purchases, so, as Google said in a blog post on its new service for marketers, it has partnered with “third parties” that give them access to 70 percent of all credit and debit card purchases. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-...
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Even if the mainstream alternatives are also bad, two wrongs don't make a right.
    - GeekyBear 7y ago
      "We didn't include an option to turn off data analytics for Siri in the privacy section of the control panel where all the other data analytics options are" is a far cry from "We are now buying a copy of everyone's credit card transactions so you should buy all your targeted ads from our fully armed and operational surveillance capitalism Death Star". (to borrow a Star Wars metaphor)

izacus 7y ago

Well they can perhaps also stop doing business with Chinese government and then continue preaching about privacy. They've proven flexible with their morals when it came to money too many times to be trusted. Just like any other corporation.

Tomte 7y ago
Maybe they should also stop doing business with the American government? ;-)
threeseed 7y ago
If Apple stopped doing business with China they would have to stop selling products all together. There just isn't the manufacturing capability anywhere else in the world to compete with China. It's a shame that the world outsourced such an important skill but that's where we are.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  Other phone makers manage to manufacture phones in China without handing all Chinese customer data to the Chinese government. It is possible to manufacture in China without selling to Chinese consumers.
bryan_w 7y ago
Don't forget that they take google's money and put them as the default search provider in safari. Apple loves privacy, but they love money more.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

GP never said there's anything Apple could do at this point to win them back. IMO, a company that really took privacy seriously would never, ever have let humans listen to Siri recordings without explicit user content. There is in fact nothing Apple can say post-mortem to change this. Now, whether any of the mainstream alternatives are better for privacy is a legitimate question—but at this point, I don't think anyone should choose Apple because of their privacy claims. If there are no more incidents in the next five years, maybe we can reconsider at that point, but that is how long it should take for Apple to regain trust. (That, or Apple opening their systems to public audit, which will never happen.)

GeekyBear 7y ago
Until Google gives us a way to turn off their buying a copy of everyone's brick and mortar store credit/debit card transaction data, they cannot be taken seriously as a privacy option. >Google has been able to track your location using Google Maps for a long time. Since 2014, it has used that information to provide advertisers with information on how often people visit their stores. But store visits aren’t purchases, so, as Google said in a blog post on its new service for marketers, it has partnered with “third parties” that give them access to 70 percent of all credit and debit card purchases. https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-your-credit-card-purchases-and-connects-them-to-its-online-profile-of-you/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/607938/google-now-tracks-...
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Even if the mainstream alternatives are also bad, two wrongs don't make a right.
  - GeekyBear 7y ago
    "We didn't include an option to turn off data analytics for Siri in the privacy section of the control panel where all the other data analytics options are" is a far cry from "We are now buying a copy of everyone's credit card transactions so you should buy all your targeted ads from our fully armed and operational surveillance capitalism Death Star". (to borrow a Star Wars metaphor)