4 ms·

Of course, everyone who bought it already knew it was crap. It's the same thing for buying $15K engagement rings. Everyone knows it's a stupid use of money and

Of course, everyone who bought it already knew it was crap. It's the same thing for buying $15K engagement rings. Everyone knows it's a stupid use of money and that the rings have no value. Same goes for clothing, cars, and many other things. These types of products succeed because of a shared delusion. Take fashion for instance. Everyone believes some clothes are more fashionable than others. The way you dress says a lot about you but why? It's simply because other people think it does. If the delusion runs into reality from the person hawking it, it can collapse quite quickly.

sysbin 7y ago
That's a far leap from engagement ring cost being the result of society sharing a delusion and believing there is a delusion with some clothes being more fashionable than others. Psychology has a definition named the halo effect and it's very real. A person definitely gains advantages in society when they appear more attractive than less attractive. Naturally people associate good health with attractiveness and it's hard wired in us for finding a healthy mate compared to an unhealthy mate. Good choice of clothing for the frame of a person can enhance personal features and make a person look better than if wearing something less fitting. So there is some benefit & gain that can be made with understanding fashion of clothes as a real benefit. Is the advantage based on a delusion of a person being more healthy than another? Sure, but it isn't because people intentionally have a delusion about one shirt looking better than another.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  If that were the whole story then fashion would never change. The idea that your clothes should be the right size doesn't have much to do with the weird color cycling that clothing companies try to foist on people.
- dumbfoundded 7y ago
  I absolutely agree with some clothing is used for health/sexual/wealth signaling and it works to some degree. But these simple ideas don't nearly explain fashion. If fashion didn't include a huge amount of delusion, it would converge. It wouldn't shift with each generation. We are more than hardwired to find the most capable mate. We're also hardwired to pick up social cues so if a large enough group of people believe something, we believe it too. If everyone you knew started wearing those MC Hammer pants tomorrow, how long would you hold out? If people suddenly and entirely stopped wearing ties with suits, would continue to wear the most unnecessary accessory ever? Why does everyone in tech dress so similarly?
- UnFleshedOne 7y ago
  Well, isn't it a similar process to ring prices? Everybody thinks spending few month of your life to finance some brown people exploitation is a way to show commitment and other desirable qualities for a mate, so doing so is advantageous.
indigoabstract 7y ago
yes, that's known as the famous "emporer's new clothes" effect
natalyarostova 7y ago
It's not delusion, it's signaling.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Signaling is the effort through which you participate in a shared delusion.
  - natalyarostova 7y ago
    It's not (necessarily) a delusion though, because it is something rational non-deluded people would do. For example, to use a really simple toy example, if you're a man then buying an expensive ring for a women is a credible signal of commitment. Why? Because you can't fake the sacrifice of 6 months of sacrificed work in order to buy a ring for her. If you're a man who wants a wife, this is a clear level headed choice to make. I think delusion as a term should not include optimal choices made by individual actors.
    - dumbfoundded 7y ago
      It's a rational move in a crazy delusional game created by the marketing department of a diamond company about 100 years ago. By doing such, you are simply perpetuating the delusion. Sometimes it makes rational, logical sense to play the game. It's a form of intentional stupidity. Forgoing your rationality to get the things you want. If you ever worked at a large enough company, I'm sure you understand.
mikedilger 7y ago
If I know it's crap, and you know it's crap, but I don't know that you know it's crap, I may think that it still works as a social signal. Once it becomes common knowledge, the jig is up.

sysbin 7y ago

That's a far leap from engagement ring cost being the result of society sharing a delusion and believing there is a delusion with some clothes being more fashionable than others. Psychology has a definition named the halo effect and it's very real. A person definitely gains advantages in society when they appear more attractive than less attractive. Naturally people associate good health with attractiveness and it's hard wired in us for finding a healthy mate compared to an unhealthy mate. Good choice of clothing for the frame of a person can enhance personal features and make a person look better than if wearing something less fitting. So there is some benefit & gain that can be made with understanding fashion of clothes as a real benefit. Is the advantage based on a delusion of a person being more healthy than another? Sure, but it isn't because people intentionally have a delusion about one shirt looking better than another.

whatshisface 7y ago
If that were the whole story then fashion would never change. The idea that your clothes should be the right size doesn't have much to do with the weird color cycling that clothing companies try to foist on people.
dumbfoundded 7y ago
I absolutely agree with some clothing is used for health/sexual/wealth signaling and it works to some degree. But these simple ideas don't nearly explain fashion. If fashion didn't include a huge amount of delusion, it would converge. It wouldn't shift with each generation. We are more than hardwired to find the most capable mate. We're also hardwired to pick up social cues so if a large enough group of people believe something, we believe it too. If everyone you knew started wearing those MC Hammer pants tomorrow, how long would you hold out? If people suddenly and entirely stopped wearing ties with suits, would continue to wear the most unnecessary accessory ever? Why does everyone in tech dress so similarly?
UnFleshedOne 7y ago
Well, isn't it a similar process to ring prices? Everybody thinks spending few month of your life to finance some brown people exploitation is a way to show commitment and other desirable qualities for a mate, so doing so is advantageous.

indigoabstract 7y ago

yes, that's known as the famous "emporer's new clothes" effect

natalyarostova 7y ago

It's not delusion, it's signaling.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Signaling is the effort through which you participate in a shared delusion.
- natalyarostova 7y ago
  It's not (necessarily) a delusion though, because it is something rational non-deluded people would do. For example, to use a really simple toy example, if you're a man then buying an expensive ring for a women is a credible signal of commitment. Why? Because you can't fake the sacrifice of 6 months of sacrificed work in order to buy a ring for her. If you're a man who wants a wife, this is a clear level headed choice to make. I think delusion as a term should not include optimal choices made by individual actors.
  - dumbfoundded 7y ago
    It's a rational move in a crazy delusional game created by the marketing department of a diamond company about 100 years ago. By doing such, you are simply perpetuating the delusion. Sometimes it makes rational, logical sense to play the game. It's a form of intentional stupidity. Forgoing your rationality to get the things you want. If you ever worked at a large enough company, I'm sure you understand.

mikedilger 7y ago

If I know it's crap, and you know it's crap, but I don't know that you know it's crap, I may think that it still works as a social signal. Once it becomes common knowledge, the jig is up.