5 ms·

The big deal here is the patent grant. FAT related patents were held over linux like a gun in the Ballmer years. Its a reason Linux was stuck with 8.3 length fi

The big deal here is the patent grant. FAT related patents were held over linux like a gun in the Ballmer years. Its a reason Linux was stuck with 8.3 length filenames for so long.

taffer 7y ago
Aren't the FAT patents about to expire anyway?
- WorldMaker 7y ago
  Some of the earliest ones, surely, but presumably Microsoft also continued to patent later innovations: all of the "extended" in ExFAT.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    This seems to be one of the patents involved: https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2008168029&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP# https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC... I'm not sure what's the expiry on 2008 submission.
    - loeg 7y ago
      20 years from invention? Which looks like ~2004 skimming the 2008 filing.
- pkaye 7y ago
  The original ones from the MSDOS days should have long expired. The one with VFAT/FAT32 from the Windows 95 era should have expired a few years back. I think exFAT is probably the last one remaining.
  - taffer 7y ago
    Yes I forgot that exFAT is a whole new thing from 2008.
elipsey 7y ago
>> Linux was stuck with 8.3 length filenames for so long. How so? I never had that problem.
- wyldfire 7y ago
  .... on FAT partitions
  - elipsey 7y ago
    Sorry, dumb question. :) I guess I never noticed a problem because either I mostly use ext3/4, or I am so used to using legally dubious drivers that I forgot they were there. I mean, who ever gives you a FAT formatted disk? I don't have floppy drive anyway :p
    - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
      Most flash drives and SD cards are still FAT formatted by default.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - moonbug 7y ago
      SDCards, USB sticks...
    - saidajigumi 7y ago
      Cameras. High capacity removable flash media used by digital still and video cameras is often formatted as exFAT. Despite MS' licensing, FAT/FAT32/exFAT are essentially the "file systems of interchange" for removable flash media. More info at: https://fossbytes.com/fat32-vs-ntfs-vs-exfat-difference-three-file-systems/ https://fossbytes.com/fat32-vs-ntfs-vs-exfat-difference-thre...
      - ysleepy 7y ago
gumby 7y ago
Agreed! I made reference to the patent in the exFAT Wikipedia page for years ago and it was reverted within hours. When Apple was at death's door (around the arrival of OS X) they were very open about protocols and formats (e.g. JPG, mp3, ssh, whatever) and happily paid the Danegeld so their customers could encode mp3s and RTF files etc. They proclaimed how important open formats were and managed somehow to get unprotected files in their music store. I thought to myself that they would lose "religion" if they ever achieved any success and indeed, they don't really care so much. They don't even oppose it, just don't care. So I wonder if this is MS seeing that exFat might be replaced just to save a few pennies of BOM cost and that they need to be in the thick of IoT things, having lost the embedded OS competition. And while exFat is hardly a big money earner, staying relevant matters. With linux beating Ones in the Azure cloud, every bit helps. BTW I'm a long term apple user; my comments about the waxing and waning of their commitment to openness is a dispassionate observation.
- nolok 7y ago
  While an interesting thought I believe this isn’t it because whatever new fs would need to work on windows and be standardized.
leeoniya 7y ago
does this mean we can finally get MSC back and not be stuck with the giant turd that is MTP?
naner 7y ago
They fired the gun. Linux had to rework the FAT32 implementation in the kernel when TomTom got sued for not paying the Microsoft tax and lost.
- kragen 7y ago
  TomTom didn't lose; they capitulated.
yrro 7y ago
Huh? I'm sure I've yes long file names on vfat formatted disks for years...

The big deal here is the patent grant. FAT related patents were held over linux like a gun in the Ballmer years. Its a reason Linux was stuck with 8.3 length filenames for so long.

taffer 7y ago

Aren't the FAT patents about to expire anyway?

WorldMaker 7y ago
Some of the earliest ones, surely, but presumably Microsoft also continued to patent later innovations: all of the "extended" in ExFAT.
- viraptor 7y ago
  This seems to be one of the patents involved: https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=US&NR=2008168029&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP# https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC... I'm not sure what's the expiry on 2008 submission.
  - loeg 7y ago
    20 years from invention? Which looks like ~2004 skimming the 2008 filing.
pkaye 7y ago
The original ones from the MSDOS days should have long expired. The one with VFAT/FAT32 from the Windows 95 era should have expired a few years back. I think exFAT is probably the last one remaining.
- taffer 7y ago
  Yes I forgot that exFAT is a whole new thing from 2008.

elipsey 7y ago

>> Linux was stuck with 8.3 length filenames for so long. How so? I never had that problem.

wyldfire 7y ago
.... on FAT partitions
- elipsey 7y ago
  Sorry, dumb question. :) I guess I never noticed a problem because either I mostly use ext3/4, or I am so used to using legally dubious drivers that I forgot they were there. I mean, who ever gives you a FAT formatted disk? I don't have floppy drive anyway :p
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    Most flash drives and SD cards are still FAT formatted by default.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - moonbug 7y ago
    SDCards, USB sticks...
  - saidajigumi 7y ago
    Cameras. High capacity removable flash media used by digital still and video cameras is often formatted as exFAT. Despite MS' licensing, FAT/FAT32/exFAT are essentially the "file systems of interchange" for removable flash media. More info at: https://fossbytes.com/fat32-vs-ntfs-vs-exfat-difference-three-file-systems/ https://fossbytes.com/fat32-vs-ntfs-vs-exfat-difference-thre...
    - ysleepy 7y ago

gumby 7y ago

Agreed! I made reference to the patent in the exFAT Wikipedia page for years ago and it was reverted within hours. When Apple was at death's door (around the arrival of OS X) they were very open about protocols and formats (e.g. JPG, mp3, ssh, whatever) and happily paid the Danegeld so their customers could encode mp3s and RTF files etc. They proclaimed how important open formats were and managed somehow to get unprotected files in their music store. I thought to myself that they would lose "religion" if they ever achieved any success and indeed, they don't really care so much. They don't even oppose it, just don't care. So I wonder if this is MS seeing that exFat might be replaced just to save a few pennies of BOM cost and that they need to be in the thick of IoT things, having lost the embedded OS competition. And while exFat is hardly a big money earner, staying relevant matters. With linux beating Ones in the Azure cloud, every bit helps. BTW I'm a long term apple user; my comments about the waxing and waning of their commitment to openness is a dispassionate observation.

nolok 7y ago
While an interesting thought I believe this isn’t it because whatever new fs would need to work on windows and be standardized.

leeoniya 7y ago

does this mean we can finally get MSC back and not be stuck with the giant turd that is MTP?

naner 7y ago

They fired the gun. Linux had to rework the FAT32 implementation in the kernel when TomTom got sued for not paying the Microsoft tax and lost.

kragen 7y ago
TomTom didn't lose; they capitulated.

yrro 7y ago

Huh? I'm sure I've yes long file names on vfat formatted disks for years...