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Maybe we shouldn't construct a society where your obligations to your employer are at odds with you helping society find justice for a murder victim. This is a

by ixtli 7y ago

Maybe we shouldn't construct a society where your obligations to your employer are at odds with you helping society find justice for a murder victim. This is a great example of how atomized our society has become.

ghaff 7y ago
I'm honestly not sure what that means. Many large companies tend to be pretty flexible with respect to things like jury duty. But, to say that even a small business needs to keep paying full salary for someone who is out for weeks or longer (and even if they have to hire a temporary replacement) is probably not realistic. Per diems for things like jury duty should arguably be higher. But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. As I wrote elsewhere, it would be nice if everyone involved were more respectful of the time being put in by unpaid or nominally paid participants. But that's no one's priority.
- sdoering 7y ago
  In Germany the state pays your lost salary when you are required to be in court as a witness. We don't have the American jury system so times in court tend to be way shorter. But non the less. If society here needs my support it is giving back something as well. Not that in the one case were I was entitled to compensation I ever asked for it. Because I feel it was my civic duty. But then - I am in the lucky position to be able to afford this sentiment.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  'atomization' describes a social phenomenon of mass strategic isolation, though one which requires additional reading rather than being easily definable here. Anyway, why shouldn't a business of any size continue to pay people? Just treat employee absences as a minor insurable risk, or press for adequate compensation for witnesses and jurors by restructuring the tax system. Passively accepting bad things guarantees you will get more of them.
- malandrew 7y ago
  What they should do is allow the business to deduct that employee's salary from the taxes they owe while that employee is fulfilling a public need.
  - ixtli 7y ago
    This is actually an interesting idea. I'd say (only half tongue-in-cheek) that then maybe we can tax companies heavily for all IP lawsuits they engage in so compensate for the massive money cost to citizens that the system of circular patent trolling creates.
- notJim 7y ago
  > But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. Why not? The proportion of people involved in a trial at any given time must be so small that replacing their salaries would be a relatively minor drag on companies if it was distributed well.
- ixtli 7y ago
  One thing i can say that i dont think was said here is that you're right that some large companies are very flexible in this way. It's a good thing we have their permission to participate in the justice system! In my experience, however, almost all smaller companies have a culture of sharing tips on how to avoid being selected for jury duty that is actively encouraged by ownership and management. It's worth remembering this when people issue blanket statements about how consumers should prefer small businesses over large ones because of some vague notion that they're more beneficial to "the community."

by ixtli 7y ago

ghaff 7y ago

I'm honestly not sure what that means. Many large companies tend to be pretty flexible with respect to things like jury duty. But, to say that even a small business needs to keep paying full salary for someone who is out for weeks or longer (and even if they have to hire a temporary replacement) is probably not realistic. Per diems for things like jury duty should arguably be higher. But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. As I wrote elsewhere, it would be nice if everyone involved were more respectful of the time being put in by unpaid or nominally paid participants. But that's no one's priority.

sdoering 7y ago
In Germany the state pays your lost salary when you are required to be in court as a witness. We don't have the American jury system so times in court tend to be way shorter. But non the less. If society here needs my support it is giving back something as well. Not that in the one case were I was entitled to compensation I ever asked for it. Because I feel it was my civic duty. But then - I am in the lucky position to be able to afford this sentiment.
anigbrowl 7y ago
'atomization' describes a social phenomenon of mass strategic isolation, though one which requires additional reading rather than being easily definable here. Anyway, why shouldn't a business of any size continue to pay people? Just treat employee absences as a minor insurable risk, or press for adequate compensation for witnesses and jurors by restructuring the tax system. Passively accepting bad things guarantees you will get more of them.
malandrew 7y ago
What they should do is allow the business to deduct that employee's salary from the taxes they owe while that employee is fulfilling a public need.
- ixtli 7y ago
  This is actually an interesting idea. I'd say (only half tongue-in-cheek) that then maybe we can tax companies heavily for all IP lawsuits they engage in so compensate for the massive money cost to citizens that the system of circular patent trolling creates.
notJim 7y ago
> But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. Why not? The proportion of people involved in a trial at any given time must be so small that replacing their salaries would be a relatively minor drag on companies if it was distributed well.
ixtli 7y ago
One thing i can say that i dont think was said here is that you're right that some large companies are very flexible in this way. It's a good thing we have their permission to participate in the justice system! In my experience, however, almost all smaller companies have a culture of sharing tips on how to avoid being selected for jury duty that is actively encouraged by ownership and management. It's worth remembering this when people issue blanket statements about how consumers should prefer small businesses over large ones because of some vague notion that they're more beneficial to "the community."