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How do you teach optimism in the way Stripe is looking for though? As someone with a hefty amount of anxiety and depression weighing down on me most of the tim

How do you teach optimism in the way Stripe is looking for though? As someone with a hefty amount of anxiety and depression weighing down on me most of the time, I often feel like I'm the only person in the room who can't get excited about things, but I don't want to be the weight bringing everyone else down. Is there not a danger of this value becoming a proxy for "people with depression and similar mental health problems aren't welcome at Stripe"?

draw_down 7y ago
Your last sentence is saying the quiet part loud, IMO.
_lm1s 7y ago
I have a similar problem. I'm always pessimistic, stressful and anxious. After my job interview for a machine learning job, HR gave me a personaly test. It turns out that they were literally horrified by the results and told me that every response I made was the exact opposite they were looking for. I got the job nevertheless but mental issues do become a barrier in one's career. I knowingly try to be alone in the office, don't take any breaks and don't talk to anyone unless it's necessary. Haven't heard a complaint yet. But I would suggest to the opposite, communication is important.
- rabidrat 7y ago
  That's interesting, what was the point of the personality test? I mean it's crappy if you can 'fail' it, so in that sense I'm glad it's not an actual hurdle, but then why give a candidate the test in the first place? If it's to know how best to work with you, then they should save it for after you've been hired.
  - _lm1s 7y ago
    They said they wanted to see if I was a good fit for the organization's culture. Technical interview went really well, so they did not cared that much about the test results. But they requested me to take the test again hoping I would get better results. What a joke :)
cbetti 7y ago
Teach or acquire? Talk to people about it often. Keep an open mind. Take note when someone exhibits the value in a way you admire and ask yourself: how can I emulate that next time I feel pessimistic about something?
- andrewingram 7y ago
  I think teach. Sometimes people need some hand-holding for this stuff, otherwise the hopelessness takes over, e.g "I can never be that person, I might as well give up". Edit: I know that this is largely the role of therapists and mentors, but I think there's a tendency in startups to expect people to teach themselves the skills they need to do their jobs, rather than provide training and guidance. So i'm wondering if this is the kind of thing that could be trained.
iwintermute 7y ago
> "people with depression and similar mental health problems aren't welcome at Stripe" That an interesting question. Would you like to work in a tandem with a person with mental health problems? Is it the same as asking "people with chronic fatigue and similar health issues are not welcome at company specialized at manual labor" ?
- andrewingram 7y ago
  I work with several people who suffer from a range of mental health problems, and most of my closest friends can be described the same way. So you could even argue that it's my preference. As for whether it's the same question as the chronic fatigue thing, i'm not sure. I think largely it comes down to how negative their perceived impact on their colleagues is?
yawboakye 7y ago
Optimism doesn't always manifest in excitement. It's mostly a believe that a target can be achieved, even though how to achieve it isn't always clear. And it applies outside of work as well. I have depression episodes, and I sympathize with those who are unable to overcome it and so take their lives, but one of the reasons I'm still here is my optimism that every bout will eventually end, and I'll be happy and usual again.
alexashka 7y ago
Stripe is a business. The goal of a business is profit, because without it, it dies. Are you able to bring profit, moreso than other candidates? You're hired. That's it, nobody gives a shit about depression and if some company decides on arbitrary qualities that are unrelated to profit in regards to hiring, it'll be beaten by a company that focuses on profits. Depression, feelings and values are great topics to be discussed in romance novels, tv shows, dinner parties and other leisurely activities that you may engage in, after you bring value to society you're a part of, or else society will cease to exist.
- andrewingram 7y ago
  You're not really addressing the core question here, it was never really about the profitability a depressed person can bring, it was about whether hiring based on a signal of an optimistic personality is unnecessarily exclusionary. Values-based hiring isn't a magic bullet, it can lead to problems such as having a monoculture. And as I alluded to before, it's possible for hiring too rigidly against a value to unintentionally become a proxy for exclusionary bias.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

draw_down 7y ago

Your last sentence is saying the quiet part loud, IMO.

_lm1s 7y ago

I have a similar problem. I'm always pessimistic, stressful and anxious. After my job interview for a machine learning job, HR gave me a personaly test. It turns out that they were literally horrified by the results and told me that every response I made was the exact opposite they were looking for. I got the job nevertheless but mental issues do become a barrier in one's career. I knowingly try to be alone in the office, don't take any breaks and don't talk to anyone unless it's necessary. Haven't heard a complaint yet. But I would suggest to the opposite, communication is important.

rabidrat 7y ago
That's interesting, what was the point of the personality test? I mean it's crappy if you can 'fail' it, so in that sense I'm glad it's not an actual hurdle, but then why give a candidate the test in the first place? If it's to know how best to work with you, then they should save it for after you've been hired.
- _lm1s 7y ago
  They said they wanted to see if I was a good fit for the organization's culture. Technical interview went really well, so they did not cared that much about the test results. But they requested me to take the test again hoping I would get better results. What a joke :)

cbetti 7y ago

Teach or acquire? Talk to people about it often. Keep an open mind. Take note when someone exhibits the value in a way you admire and ask yourself: how can I emulate that next time I feel pessimistic about something?

andrewingram 7y ago
I think teach. Sometimes people need some hand-holding for this stuff, otherwise the hopelessness takes over, e.g "I can never be that person, I might as well give up". Edit: I know that this is largely the role of therapists and mentors, but I think there's a tendency in startups to expect people to teach themselves the skills they need to do their jobs, rather than provide training and guidance. So i'm wondering if this is the kind of thing that could be trained.

iwintermute 7y ago

> "people with depression and similar mental health problems aren't welcome at Stripe" That an interesting question. Would you like to work in a tandem with a person with mental health problems? Is it the same as asking "people with chronic fatigue and similar health issues are not welcome at company specialized at manual labor" ?

andrewingram 7y ago
I work with several people who suffer from a range of mental health problems, and most of my closest friends can be described the same way. So you could even argue that it's my preference. As for whether it's the same question as the chronic fatigue thing, i'm not sure. I think largely it comes down to how negative their perceived impact on their colleagues is?

yawboakye 7y ago

Optimism doesn't always manifest in excitement. It's mostly a believe that a target can be achieved, even though how to achieve it isn't always clear. And it applies outside of work as well. I have depression episodes, and I sympathize with those who are unable to overcome it and so take their lives, but one of the reasons I'm still here is my optimism that every bout will eventually end, and I'll be happy and usual again.

alexashka 7y ago

Stripe is a business. The goal of a business is profit, because without it, it dies. Are you able to bring profit, moreso than other candidates? You're hired. That's it, nobody gives a shit about depression and if some company decides on arbitrary qualities that are unrelated to profit in regards to hiring, it'll be beaten by a company that focuses on profits. Depression, feelings and values are great topics to be discussed in romance novels, tv shows, dinner parties and other leisurely activities that you may engage in, after you bring value to society you're a part of, or else society will cease to exist.

andrewingram 7y ago
You're not really addressing the core question here, it was never really about the profitability a depressed person can bring, it was about whether hiring based on a signal of an optimistic personality is unnecessarily exclusionary. Values-based hiring isn't a magic bullet, it can lead to problems such as having a monoculture. And as I alluded to before, it's possible for hiring too rigidly against a value to unintentionally become a proxy for exclusionary bias.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]