5 ms·

At the risk of being glib, your headache and frustrations seem trivial in the context of the crime you're mentioning.

mikestew 7y ago
At equal risk of being glib, I don't think the purchase of consumer electronics should put you on the hook for weeks of depositions for a crime you didn't personally witness. I believe that would the literal manifestation of "that's not what I signed up for". Here's the MP4 file, now go away.
- ghaff 7y ago
  What if you were a random witness? You didn't sign up for that either. You have certain civic obligations which are enforced by law. I assume in these types of cases, you could be held in contempt if you wouldn't respond voluntarily. It's unfortunate for the person involved and the incentives in the system are such that no one is trying to make efficient use of their time. But that's pretty much the way it is. It's not really that different from being seated on a multi-week jury trial much less a possibly multi-month grand jury.
  - ixtli 7y ago
    Maybe we shouldn't construct a society where your obligations to your employer are at odds with you helping society find justice for a murder victim. This is a great example of how atomized our society has become.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      I'm honestly not sure what that means. Many large companies tend to be pretty flexible with respect to things like jury duty. But, to say that even a small business needs to keep paying full salary for someone who is out for weeks or longer (and even if they have to hire a temporary replacement) is probably not realistic. Per diems for things like jury duty should arguably be higher. But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. As I wrote elsewhere, it would be nice if everyone involved were more respectful of the time being put in by unpaid or nominally paid participants. But that's no one's priority.
      - sdoering 7y ago
        In Germany the state pays your lost salary when you are required to be in court as a witness. We don't have the American jury system so times in court tend to be way shorter. But non the less. If society here needs my support it is giving back something as well. Not that in the one case were I was entitled to compensation I ever asked for it. Because I feel it was my civic duty. But then - I am in the lucky position to be able to afford this sentiment.
      - anigbrowl 7y ago
        'atomization' describes a social phenomenon of mass strategic isolation, though one which requires additional reading rather than being easily definable here. Anyway, why shouldn't a business of any size continue to pay people? Just treat employee absences as a minor insurable risk, or press for adequate compensation for witnesses and jurors by restructuring the tax system. Passively accepting bad things guarantees you will get more of them.
      - malandrew 7y ago
        What they should do is allow the business to deduct that employee's salary from the taxes they owe while that employee is fulfilling a public need.
        ixtli 7y ago
        This is actually an interesting idea. I'd say (only half tongue-in-cheek) that then maybe we can tax companies heavily for all IP lawsuits they engage in so compensate for the massive money cost to citizens that the system of circular patent trolling creates.
      - notJim 7y ago
        > But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. Why not? The proportion of people involved in a trial at any given time must be so small that replacing their salaries would be a relatively minor drag on companies if it was distributed well.
      - 7y ago
  - mikestew 7y ago
    What if you were a random witness? I'm not, I'm a random person in possession of a consumer electronics device that might have a video recording of the crime in question. No need for depositions, everything I know is in this MP4 file, and now that I have transferred the file to you, LEO, you know everything I know. Further interrogation will gain you nothing but my contempt. It's not really that different from being seated on a multi-week jury trial much less a possibly multi-month grand jury. Forget ballparks, it's not even the same sport.
  - posterboy 7y ago
    The problem here is that the leave is unpaid. I've been informed recently that the employer in Germany has to compensate for the leave and will be reimbursed later. This sounds too good to be true though.
ryanlol 7y ago
At the risk of being glib, I don’t think much can be done about the crime at this point.

At equal risk of being glib, I don't think the purchase of consumer electronics should put you on the hook for weeks of depositions for a crime you didn't personally witness. I believe that would the literal manifestation of "that's not what I signed up for". Here's the MP4 file, now go away.

ghaff 7y ago
What if you were a random witness? You didn't sign up for that either. You have certain civic obligations which are enforced by law. I assume in these types of cases, you could be held in contempt if you wouldn't respond voluntarily. It's unfortunate for the person involved and the incentives in the system are such that no one is trying to make efficient use of their time. But that's pretty much the way it is. It's not really that different from being seated on a multi-week jury trial much less a possibly multi-month grand jury.
- ixtli 7y ago
  Maybe we shouldn't construct a society where your obligations to your employer are at odds with you helping society find justice for a murder victim. This is a great example of how atomized our society has become.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I'm honestly not sure what that means. Many large companies tend to be pretty flexible with respect to things like jury duty. But, to say that even a small business needs to keep paying full salary for someone who is out for weeks or longer (and even if they have to hire a temporary replacement) is probably not realistic. Per diems for things like jury duty should arguably be higher. But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. As I wrote elsewhere, it would be nice if everyone involved were more respectful of the time being put in by unpaid or nominally paid participants. But that's no one's priority.
    - sdoering 7y ago
      In Germany the state pays your lost salary when you are required to be in court as a witness. We don't have the American jury system so times in court tend to be way shorter. But non the less. If society here needs my support it is giving back something as well. Not that in the one case were I was entitled to compensation I ever asked for it. Because I feel it was my civic duty. But then - I am in the lucky position to be able to afford this sentiment.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      'atomization' describes a social phenomenon of mass strategic isolation, though one which requires additional reading rather than being easily definable here. Anyway, why shouldn't a business of any size continue to pay people? Just treat employee absences as a minor insurable risk, or press for adequate compensation for witnesses and jurors by restructuring the tax system. Passively accepting bad things guarantees you will get more of them.
    - malandrew 7y ago
      What they should do is allow the business to deduct that employee's salary from the taxes they owe while that employee is fulfilling a public need.
      - ixtli 7y ago
        This is actually an interesting idea. I'd say (only half tongue-in-cheek) that then maybe we can tax companies heavily for all IP lawsuits they engage in so compensate for the massive money cost to citizens that the system of circular patent trolling creates.
    - notJim 7y ago
      > But there's no world in which, say, a Silicon Valley software developer is going to be paid their regular daily salary with benefits. Why not? The proportion of people involved in a trial at any given time must be so small that replacing their salaries would be a relatively minor drag on companies if it was distributed well.
    - 7y ago
- mikestew 7y ago
  What if you were a random witness? I'm not, I'm a random person in possession of a consumer electronics device that might have a video recording of the crime in question. No need for depositions, everything I know is in this MP4 file, and now that I have transferred the file to you, LEO, you know everything I know. Further interrogation will gain you nothing but my contempt. It's not really that different from being seated on a multi-week jury trial much less a possibly multi-month grand jury. Forget ballparks, it's not even the same sport.
- posterboy 7y ago
  The problem here is that the leave is unpaid. I've been informed recently that the employer in Germany has to compensate for the leave and will be reimbursed later. This sounds too good to be true though.

ryanlol 7y ago

At the risk of being glib, I don’t think much can be done about the crime at this point.