5 ms·

When Bad Patents Hurt Good People: Patent Threat Shuts Down Flight Planning Site

90 points by yanw 16y ago

Matt_Rose 16y ago
RunwayFinder replaced tens of thousands of dollars of hard-to-use maps and charts with a great free google maps interface. FlightPrep deserves to burn in hell as far as I'm concerned
CapitalistCartr 16y ago
Three weeks ago they were going to fight it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2018272 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2018272
- soitgoes 16y ago
  And since then, he seems to be getting quite a bit of support in his fight: http://blog.runwayfinder.com/2011/01/07/the-lawyers-are-talking/ http://blog.runwayfinder.com/2011/01/07/the-lawyers-are-talk...
shooll 16y ago
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redthrowaway 16y ago
Why is nobody talking about the real issue here: the slashed budget of the USPTO that has made them unable to properly vet patent applications for a decade? The problem isn't the trolls, it's the fact that these bullshit patent requests are being granted in the first place. The USPTO can't afford to have experts review patent applications, and this is the result.
- rick_2047 16y ago
  While I totally agree with you (the problem is not actually the trolls) but these kind of patents can be easily identified as trolling.
  - redthrowaway 16y ago
    By someone who knows what they're doing, sure. Consider, however, the patent for Linked List that was granted: Any programmer would have balked at it, but the unspecialized clerk reviewing it wouldn't have had a clue.
    - kajecounterhack 16y ago
      Whoa Linked Lists got patented?!?! That's crazy. Do you happen to have a link about it, I'm really curious about this. That's friggin crazy...
      - redthrowaway 16y ago
        Yeah, it's pretty damned discouraging. http://www.google.com/patents?id=Szh4AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.google.com/patents?id=Szh4AAAAEBAJ&printsec=a...
        alain94040 16y ago
        Sorry, but that patent does not cover linked lists. It covers the merging to two lists using linked lists so that there are multiple ways to loop though a list of items. Fairly obvious? I would say so. But not the sensational claim that "linked lists are patented". By making such bogus claims, you actually hurt the cause of people who want real patent reform. This opinion coming from someone who had to go through the legal system to file and defend bogus patent infringement cases.
        Natsu 16y ago
cubicle67 16y ago
reminds me of the crap Blackboard pull so they don't have to compete on merit
patrickaljord 16y ago
On a related note, the guys from Hipmunk[0] also patented something ridiculous which is basically a simple jquery plugin. [0]: http://www.hipmunk.com/ http://www.hipmunk.com/
- nphase 16y ago
  Getting a patent for something isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. Doing harm with those patents is. Many companies get patents to protect themselves from situations just like this one.
  - fuzzythinker 16y ago
    until they get brought by a slightly eviler co.
    - cookiecaper 16y ago
      It doesn't always have to work that way. If patents are secured, they can effectively be released into public domain, at least as far as I understand. Take a look at Xiph and Ogg; my understanding is that they publicly relinquished any rights to pursue infringement claims on their Vorbis-related (?) patents. IANAL. Someone may also take a more creative route and attempt to make the point that software patents are terrible and evil by doing something absurd and high-profile by wielding them. For instance, if people can't get an iPhone anymore because of an injunction related to a patent suit, people will get mad and someone will probably at least try to fix the law, but probably end up making it worse. Generally, it seems people don't care about principle as much as they care about having their fleeting wants fulfilled. If you take away American Idol or iPhone, you will get angry citizens.
      - fuzzythinker 16y ago
        Yes, both of these scenarios are what we hope, especially the latter since I don't envision the USPTO to just stop software patents without such catalyst. But as you know, obtaining patents to open to public domain isn't the norm. I would guess that change of leadership (or even change of heart of the leader) to ones who don't believe in the original defensive intent of the patent happens more frequently.
dantheman 16y ago
Another piece of evidence that software patents are harmful.

90 points by yanw 16y ago

RunwayFinder replaced tens of thousands of dollars of hard-to-use maps and charts with a great free google maps interface. FlightPrep deserves to burn in hell as far as I'm concerned

CapitalistCartr 16y ago

Three weeks ago they were going to fight it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2018272 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2018272

soitgoes 16y ago
And since then, he seems to be getting quite a bit of support in his fight: http://blog.runwayfinder.com/2011/01/07/the-lawyers-are-talking/ http://blog.runwayfinder.com/2011/01/07/the-lawyers-are-talk...

shooll 16y ago

( http://www.findsoso.com http://www.findsoso.com / ) (( http://www.findsoso.com http://www.findsoso.com / ) We need your support and trust!!! Dear friends, please temporarily stop your footsteps To our website Walk around A look at Maybe you'll find happiness in your sight shopping heaven and earth You'll find our price is more suitable for you. Welcome to our website ( http://www.findsoso.com http://www.findsoso.com / ) Thanks to the support! ( http://www.findsoso.com http://www.findsoso.com / ) ( http://www.findsoso.com http://www.findsoso.com / ) ( http://www.findsoso.com http://www.findsoso.com /

redthrowaway 16y ago

Why is nobody talking about the real issue here: the slashed budget of the USPTO that has made them unable to properly vet patent applications for a decade? The problem isn't the trolls, it's the fact that these bullshit patent requests are being granted in the first place. The USPTO can't afford to have experts review patent applications, and this is the result.

rick_2047 16y ago
While I totally agree with you (the problem is not actually the trolls) but these kind of patents can be easily identified as trolling.
- redthrowaway 16y ago
  By someone who knows what they're doing, sure. Consider, however, the patent for Linked List that was granted: Any programmer would have balked at it, but the unspecialized clerk reviewing it wouldn't have had a clue.
  - kajecounterhack 16y ago
    Whoa Linked Lists got patented?!?! That's crazy. Do you happen to have a link about it, I'm really curious about this. That's friggin crazy...
    - redthrowaway 16y ago
      Yeah, it's pretty damned discouraging. http://www.google.com/patents?id=Szh4AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract#v=onepage&q&f=false http://www.google.com/patents?id=Szh4AAAAEBAJ&printsec=a...
      - alain94040 16y ago
        Sorry, but that patent does not cover linked lists. It covers the merging to two lists using linked lists so that there are multiple ways to loop though a list of items. Fairly obvious? I would say so. But not the sensational claim that "linked lists are patented". By making such bogus claims, you actually hurt the cause of people who want real patent reform. This opinion coming from someone who had to go through the legal system to file and defend bogus patent infringement cases.
        Natsu 16y ago

cubicle67 16y ago

reminds me of the crap Blackboard pull so they don't have to compete on merit

patrickaljord 16y ago

On a related note, the guys from Hipmunk[0] also patented something ridiculous which is basically a simple jquery plugin. [0]: http://www.hipmunk.com/ http://www.hipmunk.com/

nphase 16y ago
Getting a patent for something isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. Doing harm with those patents is. Many companies get patents to protect themselves from situations just like this one.
- fuzzythinker 16y ago
  until they get brought by a slightly eviler co.
  - cookiecaper 16y ago
    It doesn't always have to work that way. If patents are secured, they can effectively be released into public domain, at least as far as I understand. Take a look at Xiph and Ogg; my understanding is that they publicly relinquished any rights to pursue infringement claims on their Vorbis-related (?) patents. IANAL. Someone may also take a more creative route and attempt to make the point that software patents are terrible and evil by doing something absurd and high-profile by wielding them. For instance, if people can't get an iPhone anymore because of an injunction related to a patent suit, people will get mad and someone will probably at least try to fix the law, but probably end up making it worse. Generally, it seems people don't care about principle as much as they care about having their fleeting wants fulfilled. If you take away American Idol or iPhone, you will get angry citizens.
    - fuzzythinker 16y ago
      Yes, both of these scenarios are what we hope, especially the latter since I don't envision the USPTO to just stop software patents without such catalyst. But as you know, obtaining patents to open to public domain isn't the norm. I would guess that change of leadership (or even change of heart of the leader) to ones who don't believe in the original defensive intent of the patent happens more frequently.

dantheman 16y ago

Another piece of evidence that software patents are harmful.