5 ms·

You can expect to see more and more of this as most of the world converges on the Chromium browser base. There is very little incentive for these companies to t

You can expect to see more and more of this as most of the world converges on the Chromium browser base. There is very little incentive for these companies to test for Firefox. Device users have spoken. They do not bother to change the defaults that come with their devices (Chrome, Edge, Safari) and do not really care about the deeper aspects of privacy or control or FOSS. At most they care about blocking ads, which is not a compelling reason to switch.

userbinator 7y ago
I never thought I'd see the day when Microsoft would support the Google monopoly... despite all the hate IE got, at least it was from a company whose primary source of profit wasn't online advertising. To see MS give up on IE, and then Edge, was very disappointing.
- loudmax 7y ago
  It was from a company whose primary source of profit is vendor lock-in. Poorly supporting or not supporting open standards is SOP for Microsoft.
  - userbinator 7y ago
    Better than advertising and being anti-user. I've long realised that "open" anything doesn't really matter if it works against you. Example: Google trying to standardise how it hides URLs from the user (yes, really. https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-rendering https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-rendering ) There's also that whole commotion about including DRM in the HTML spec.
    - loudmax 7y ago
      Lock-in is anti-user. If you don't like Chrome/Edge, then switch to Firefox. Open standards give you have that freedom. Unless, of course, you can't switch to Firefox because the set of people you need to work with are communicating using proprietary protocols, eg. Skype. Or developing software you need that only works on proprietary operating systems. Now you're locked in.
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
The sad thing is that we've lived through all of this with Internet Explorer. I'd be willing to be that we will once more when Chrome stagnates and something bigger and better comes along...
- The_rationalist 7y ago
  Why would chromium stagnate? Everybody can improve it, even mozilla.
  - Santosh83 7y ago
    And that is truly disturbing, because it is not an implausible future where even Mozilla is finally compelled to rebase Firefox upon yet another Chromium fork, just to stay relevant with the fast-moving, extremely complex web ecosystem. Of course if their market share improves then they'll still be able to exercise relatively significant influence upon the Web's direction, but the big challenge in front of them is expanding their user base. They're in a kind of catch-22 situation I feel... it is going to be difficult to reclaim the slipping ground.
    - The_rationalist 7y ago
      I wish this future for mozilla but I expect them to make that decision when it will be too late for them.
- userbinator 7y ago
  I'd be willing to be that we will once more when Chrome stagnates and something bigger and better comes along... IE was overtaken by FF at a time when there was less complexity in browsers and MS wasn't really into the sort of feature-racing that's happening today; Google has already achieved an effective monopoly-by-complexity with its control over web standards and constant churn and feature addition under that "push the web forward" excuse. It has used its resources to make a moving target and keep it moving, making it impossible for others to even try to catch up. MS tried with Edge and gave up. I really don't like this, because unless the population manages to change its viewpoint completely and think "better" is not "bigger", I highly doubt Chrome will ever "stagnate".
dhimes 7y ago
Don't give up. We are exactly the people who can change this.
phkahler 7y ago
Getting rid of ads IS a compelling reason to switch. People will switch if the default is better. They dont want to get a new browser, pick and install an ad blocker, then configure that stuff. People will stop at the slightest uncertainty. I bet if there was a one-click to install firefox with ad-blocker and some other stuff enabled by default people would start switching. Installing, extensions, configuration, those are sysadmin function, not stuff Joe public wants to do no matter how easy the developers think they are.
- aphextim 7y ago
  >I bet if there was a one-click to install firefox with ad-blocker and some other stuff enabled by default people would start switching. Check out Brave, been getting my friends to switch as it has a built in blocker that is even more verbose than ublock. Works on mobile as well which helps them save data and load websites faster. https://brave.com/ https://brave.com/
  - aphextim 7y ago
    It even has a built in 3 node "Tor" browsing for their private windows if you want.
    - crtasm 7y ago
      Do you just mean standard Tor? I found an announcement saying it was a beta feature, if it's considered stable now that's great.
      - aphextim 7y ago
        You are correct I shouldn't have put it in quotes. They have a private window, or you can open up a tor private window by hitting shift+alt+N for a new tab with tor. Info on what their Tor actually does. https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018121491 https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018121491 Screenshot for posterity. https://imgur.com/a/HHmA0TX https://imgur.com/a/HHmA0TX
      - 7y ago
masklinn 7y ago
It's not even that it doesn't work on Firefox, it's that they're UA-filtering: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818792
kerng 7y ago
Same was said 20 years ago about Internet Explorer. Even the arguments and counter-arguments are the same as 20 years ago. Users don't really have a choice anymore, they are quite often being manipulated (forced) to install Chrome. Just browse the web with Firefox and go to Google sites.
ryandrake 7y ago
I remember people saying the same thing about IE6. “Internet Explorer will soon be 95% of the browser market, so there is no reason to develop for any other browser.” This was used to justify IE-only development, further boosting that browser’s share. User apathy and developer laziness produces this self-reinforcing circle of platform lock-in.

userbinator 7y ago

I never thought I'd see the day when Microsoft would support the Google monopoly... despite all the hate IE got, at least it was from a company whose primary source of profit wasn't online advertising. To see MS give up on IE, and then Edge, was very disappointing.

loudmax 7y ago
It was from a company whose primary source of profit is vendor lock-in. Poorly supporting or not supporting open standards is SOP for Microsoft.
- userbinator 7y ago
  Better than advertising and being anti-user. I've long realised that "open" anything doesn't really matter if it works against you. Example: Google trying to standardise how it hides URLs from the user (yes, really. https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-rendering https://url.spec.whatwg.org/#url-rendering ) There's also that whole commotion about including DRM in the HTML spec.
  - loudmax 7y ago
    Lock-in is anti-user. If you don't like Chrome/Edge, then switch to Firefox. Open standards give you have that freedom. Unless, of course, you can't switch to Firefox because the set of people you need to work with are communicating using proprietary protocols, eg. Skype. Or developing software you need that only works on proprietary operating systems. Now you're locked in.

SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago

The sad thing is that we've lived through all of this with Internet Explorer. I'd be willing to be that we will once more when Chrome stagnates and something bigger and better comes along...

The_rationalist 7y ago
Why would chromium stagnate? Everybody can improve it, even mozilla.
- Santosh83 7y ago
  And that is truly disturbing, because it is not an implausible future where even Mozilla is finally compelled to rebase Firefox upon yet another Chromium fork, just to stay relevant with the fast-moving, extremely complex web ecosystem. Of course if their market share improves then they'll still be able to exercise relatively significant influence upon the Web's direction, but the big challenge in front of them is expanding their user base. They're in a kind of catch-22 situation I feel... it is going to be difficult to reclaim the slipping ground.
  - The_rationalist 7y ago
    I wish this future for mozilla but I expect them to make that decision when it will be too late for them.
userbinator 7y ago
I'd be willing to be that we will once more when Chrome stagnates and something bigger and better comes along... IE was overtaken by FF at a time when there was less complexity in browsers and MS wasn't really into the sort of feature-racing that's happening today; Google has already achieved an effective monopoly-by-complexity with its control over web standards and constant churn and feature addition under that "push the web forward" excuse. It has used its resources to make a moving target and keep it moving, making it impossible for others to even try to catch up. MS tried with Edge and gave up. I really don't like this, because unless the population manages to change its viewpoint completely and think "better" is not "bigger", I highly doubt Chrome will ever "stagnate".

dhimes 7y ago

Don't give up. We are exactly the people who can change this.

phkahler 7y ago

Getting rid of ads IS a compelling reason to switch. People will switch if the default is better. They dont want to get a new browser, pick and install an ad blocker, then configure that stuff. People will stop at the slightest uncertainty. I bet if there was a one-click to install firefox with ad-blocker and some other stuff enabled by default people would start switching. Installing, extensions, configuration, those are sysadmin function, not stuff Joe public wants to do no matter how easy the developers think they are.

aphextim 7y ago
>I bet if there was a one-click to install firefox with ad-blocker and some other stuff enabled by default people would start switching. Check out Brave, been getting my friends to switch as it has a built in blocker that is even more verbose than ublock. Works on mobile as well which helps them save data and load websites faster. https://brave.com/ https://brave.com/
- aphextim 7y ago
  It even has a built in 3 node "Tor" browsing for their private windows if you want.
  - crtasm 7y ago
    Do you just mean standard Tor? I found an announcement saying it was a beta feature, if it's considered stable now that's great.
    - aphextim 7y ago
      You are correct I shouldn't have put it in quotes. They have a private window, or you can open up a tor private window by hitting shift+alt+N for a new tab with tor. Info on what their Tor actually does. https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018121491 https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018121491 Screenshot for posterity. https://imgur.com/a/HHmA0TX https://imgur.com/a/HHmA0TX
    - 7y ago

masklinn 7y ago

It's not even that it doesn't work on Firefox, it's that they're UA-filtering: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20818792

kerng 7y ago

Same was said 20 years ago about Internet Explorer. Even the arguments and counter-arguments are the same as 20 years ago. Users don't really have a choice anymore, they are quite often being manipulated (forced) to install Chrome. Just browse the web with Firefox and go to Google sites.

ryandrake 7y ago

I remember people saying the same thing about IE6. “Internet Explorer will soon be 95% of the browser market, so there is no reason to develop for any other browser.” This was used to justify IE-only development, further boosting that browser’s share. User apathy and developer laziness produces this self-reinforcing circle of platform lock-in.