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Care to explain the downvote? I was only explaining that a huge number of people feel it's democracy that's being upheld by this action. I personally disagree

Care to explain the downvote? I was only explaining that a huge number of people feel it's democracy that's being upheld by this action. I personally disagree entirely. I just am amazed that a fragmented simultaneously different truth can exist so openly with people believing the side they agree with. Of course I see the risk to UK democracy and the strategic (and in my view dangerously manipulative) use of the system and of course with the timing it seems impossible to argue seriously that it's just to set out a programme of gov, but that is the line Johnson is selling.

vanderZwan 7y ago
> Care to explain the downvote? There are always one or two pro-Brexit people in threads like this who get defensive at the sight of any opposition to their way of reasoning about this.
- sammorrowdrums 7y ago
  Ahh. I'm certainly not that. I meant to express my amazement that people can believe completely different things about something. It wasn't an endorsement, and I'm happy to discuss the issues in detail. I've been doing it since I lost the vote...
tremon 7y ago
Your post simply makes no sense to me. You're using assertions without reference ("Johnson is not defying parliament", "to be delivered in a Queen's Speach") and vapid terminology ("dual narrative of politics", "different universe") without explaining any link between them. So I downvoted because I can't make heads or tails of your words.
- sammorrowdrums 7y ago
  So Johnson in his speech (which is available in the video in the BBC article) is suggesting it is normal for a new government to take a break to set out a new programme of government (which is delivered in a Queen's speech, also mentioned in his speech). Some people who see his viewpoint are happy to overlook the timing and don't necessarily see it as undemocratic. There is another element. Direct democracy believers feel that parliament is trying to crush democracy (by potentially overturning a referendum result). Representative democracy believers cannot accept that their representatives would be denied the ability to represent their constituents at such a critical time of major constitutional change. So the dual narrative was a reference to how some people see this step as delivering the power and will of the people. Others see it as a dangerous subversion of democracy. Happy to clarify more if I'm being unclear but you can read the comment section on the BBC article and you'll see incredibly polar comments. The dual narrative is precisely that. People read the same article, see the same speech and have a completely different understanding of it. Perhaps that's unremarkable to you, but in the UK it's been profound and profoundly different from the mainstream politics I've seen my entire life. [Edit - clarification of crush democracy]
- twic 7y ago
  That's a response that calls for a question, not a downvote.
xtajv 7y ago
Please do not ask why you're being downvoted. From the site guidelines: Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.
- ubercow13 7y ago
  In this case it led to comments that made for good reading.

vanderZwan 7y ago

> Care to explain the downvote? There are always one or two pro-Brexit people in threads like this who get defensive at the sight of any opposition to their way of reasoning about this.

sammorrowdrums 7y ago
Ahh. I'm certainly not that. I meant to express my amazement that people can believe completely different things about something. It wasn't an endorsement, and I'm happy to discuss the issues in detail. I've been doing it since I lost the vote...

tremon 7y ago

Your post simply makes no sense to me. You're using assertions without reference ("Johnson is not defying parliament", "to be delivered in a Queen's Speach") and vapid terminology ("dual narrative of politics", "different universe") without explaining any link between them. So I downvoted because I can't make heads or tails of your words.

sammorrowdrums 7y ago
So Johnson in his speech (which is available in the video in the BBC article) is suggesting it is normal for a new government to take a break to set out a new programme of government (which is delivered in a Queen's speech, also mentioned in his speech). Some people who see his viewpoint are happy to overlook the timing and don't necessarily see it as undemocratic. There is another element. Direct democracy believers feel that parliament is trying to crush democracy (by potentially overturning a referendum result). Representative democracy believers cannot accept that their representatives would be denied the ability to represent their constituents at such a critical time of major constitutional change. So the dual narrative was a reference to how some people see this step as delivering the power and will of the people. Others see it as a dangerous subversion of democracy. Happy to clarify more if I'm being unclear but you can read the comment section on the BBC article and you'll see incredibly polar comments. The dual narrative is precisely that. People read the same article, see the same speech and have a completely different understanding of it. Perhaps that's unremarkable to you, but in the UK it's been profound and profoundly different from the mainstream politics I've seen my entire life. [Edit - clarification of crush democracy]
twic 7y ago
That's a response that calls for a question, not a downvote.

xtajv 7y ago

Please do not ask why you're being downvoted. From the site guidelines: Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

ubercow13 7y ago
In this case it led to comments that made for good reading.