5 ms·

So apparently freedom of speech in the U.S. means "freedom to say whatever the U.S. thinks is right".

dragonwriter 7y ago
While I suppose this may be litigated, the issue isn't with what freedom of speech includes, but that that freedom of speech just isn't applied to immigration process.
neighbour 7y ago
Not a U.S. citizen but why would the constitution apply to non-American citizens?
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  The constitution in general limits the government not individuals.
- pjc50 7y ago
  The corresponding provision in European human rights law, article 10, applies to all humans.
- benj111 7y ago
  Why not? A constitution is the statement of intent for how you want your country to be (minimums anyway). If you can't even apply those minimums to foreigners what does that say about your country? Your respect for your own rule of law? Would you question if murder laws applied to non citizens?
sieabahlpark 7y ago
You don't exactly have freedom of speech until you're a citizen... Since he wasn't a citizen he is not under that law.
- hans_castorp 7y ago
  Ah, so not all men are created equal - only U.S.A. citizens. Yes, that goes in line with the way the U.S.A. treats the rest of the world.
  - rswail 7y ago
    The US Constitution only applies to US citizens and those others resident in the US. If you're not in the US (legally or illegally) then you're not resident and you're not covered. However, the US is also a signatory to the UN Declaration of Human Rights which is also an international self-executing treaty, and therefore of equal standing to the Constitution in US law. But whether the US Government recognizes the rights under that treaty need to be determined by court cases that haven't happened yet.
  - sieabahlpark 7y ago
    If you want the rights then you get to follow the laws of the country too, regardless of where you are. Additionally pay taxes and all the great things Americans get to pay for. You act as if preserving America is a bad thing.
- switch007 7y ago
  Is that true? I thought the 14th Amendment's text "...nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws", coupled with the First Amendment, which have been upheld in court, would provide freedom of speech for non-citizens.
  - rswail 7y ago
    "within its jurisdiction", the "its" refers to "states", ie individual States within the United States. The Constitution (and the amendments) apply to all residents, except those, like diplomats, that are not "within its jurisdiction". Granting a visa for a non-resident into the US is not subject to either the 1st or 14th amendment. There are SCOTUS cases regarding the border that explicitly have excluded customs and immigration enforcement at the border from these rights. The US Govt in 1953 (!) expanded the "border" to mean anywhere within 100 miles of the US borders, which is what allows them to stop busses etc and do roadside checks. Whether this is entirely legal is subject to court challenges. So yes, anyone resident in the US has freedom of speech under the 1st amendment, including illegal aliens. However, the US govt is entitled under immigration law to hold illegal aliens in detention and deny them a route to express that speech except through legal representatives.
2_listerine_pls 7y ago
Not the U.S., random workers with no oversight.

While I suppose this may be litigated, the issue isn't with what freedom of speech includes, but that that freedom of speech just isn't applied to immigration process.

neighbour 7y ago

Not a U.S. citizen but why would the constitution apply to non-American citizens?

mixmastamyk 7y ago
The constitution in general limits the government not individuals.
pjc50 7y ago
The corresponding provision in European human rights law, article 10, applies to all humans.
benj111 7y ago
Why not? A constitution is the statement of intent for how you want your country to be (minimums anyway). If you can't even apply those minimums to foreigners what does that say about your country? Your respect for your own rule of law? Would you question if murder laws applied to non citizens?

sieabahlpark 7y ago

You don't exactly have freedom of speech until you're a citizen... Since he wasn't a citizen he is not under that law.

hans_castorp 7y ago
Ah, so not all men are created equal - only U.S.A. citizens. Yes, that goes in line with the way the U.S.A. treats the rest of the world.
- rswail 7y ago
  The US Constitution only applies to US citizens and those others resident in the US. If you're not in the US (legally or illegally) then you're not resident and you're not covered. However, the US is also a signatory to the UN Declaration of Human Rights which is also an international self-executing treaty, and therefore of equal standing to the Constitution in US law. But whether the US Government recognizes the rights under that treaty need to be determined by court cases that haven't happened yet.
- sieabahlpark 7y ago
  If you want the rights then you get to follow the laws of the country too, regardless of where you are. Additionally pay taxes and all the great things Americans get to pay for. You act as if preserving America is a bad thing.
switch007 7y ago
Is that true? I thought the 14th Amendment's text "...nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws", coupled with the First Amendment, which have been upheld in court, would provide freedom of speech for non-citizens.
- rswail 7y ago
  "within its jurisdiction", the "its" refers to "states", ie individual States within the United States. The Constitution (and the amendments) apply to all residents, except those, like diplomats, that are not "within its jurisdiction". Granting a visa for a non-resident into the US is not subject to either the 1st or 14th amendment. There are SCOTUS cases regarding the border that explicitly have excluded customs and immigration enforcement at the border from these rights. The US Govt in 1953 (!) expanded the "border" to mean anywhere within 100 miles of the US borders, which is what allows them to stop busses etc and do roadside checks. Whether this is entirely legal is subject to court challenges. So yes, anyone resident in the US has freedom of speech under the 1st amendment, including illegal aliens. However, the US govt is entitled under immigration law to hold illegal aliens in detention and deny them a route to express that speech except through legal representatives.

2_listerine_pls 7y ago

Not the U.S., random workers with no oversight.