8 ms·

The interesting part is not the story itself, but that they chose to demo it to the BBC. Marketing at its best, they want everyone to be fully aware of their ca

by mrich 7y ago

The interesting part is not the story itself, but that they chose to demo it to the BBC. Marketing at its best, they want everyone to be fully aware of their capabilities. Wouldn't be surprised if they were overstated, so as to keep citizens in check. The BBC willingly plays along and does not even question the capabilities either way.

chrischen 7y ago
You can bet they only demo things if they are 100% sure it will work (in a very controlled environment not unlike North Korean "tours"), and even then often it will fail because of Soviet-style bureaucratic incompetence.
- lnsru 7y ago
  I also demo only things, I am sure 100% it will work. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense. Every YouTube technical demo is repeated hundred times until perfect video is made to make an impression, it works 100%. That’s the purpose of demoing something. About bureaucratic incompetence I have no opinion.
  - spraak 7y ago
    You're arguing semantics when the point is that they likely aren't ask sophisticated as they make themselves look.
    - lnsru 7y ago
      I heard rumors, that Russian KBG had always eyes on all high levels foreigners in the country. All of them were observed expecting to find something interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat Why should China do it differently? BBC journalist is highly valued target for sure. And there you get bonus points for using this information to showcase facial recognition system in 7 minutes.
      - concerned_user 7y ago
        First of all it is KGB, and secondly Kompromat is just russian word for blackmail, and I am pretty sure nowadays FSB and any other self-respecting agencies in other countries always keep and eye on influential, wealthy or otherwise having political impact people in their country, that is just national security basics really.
  - chrischen 7y ago
    Tell that to Microsoft haha.
- h0h0h0h0111 7y ago
  Both your clauses seem to contradict one another
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
majia 7y ago
> Wouldn't be surprised if they were overstated, so as to keep citizens in check. This is a little stretching. Most Chinese audience can’t or won’t watch BBC.
megaremote 7y ago
> The BBC willingly plays along and does not even question the capabilities either way. What should they do? Not run the story? It is of interest, it is scary to a lot of people. It does also warn people wanting to hide from it. Should no one talk about this technology, or China's current capabilities? Do you think that would be better?
- mrich 7y ago
  No, they should run it, but they should discuss why the Chinese side chose to demo it, and why they appear proud of it. They should also discuss the limitations.
xster 7y ago
There's such a funny mismatch of culture and display of poor international PR sense too. Based on some cursory search, it looks like it's another one of those local-government-pioneered pilot/experiments [1] like the credit score (except there are dozens of cities in that pilot). The second tier city local government, trying to tout their achievements at the national level, then goes on a PR spree [2] (probably to earn points for the local party secretary). They even proudly market it as "Guiyang has 'Skynet' everywhere. No matter where you go, there are eyes on you,". I can totally visualize the locals thinking, who wouldn't think this is cool and an indication of Guiyang finally being ready to join the ranks of the civilized world. Meanwhile, nobody at the local level thinks (or has enough international context to know) that this is a huge negative rather than an achievement from the western perspective. They probably can't even wrap their heads around why wouldn't everyone want this. Smelling the big story, in goes the BBC also, presenting this story as this state of the iron curtain, straight as constructed from Xi's directives. The 2 sides of the story are just living in very different worlds. [1] http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1093864.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1093864.shtml [2] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eoO1dqEQhHYJ:www.eguiyang.com.cn/2019-05/30/content_37475598.htm http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eoO1dqE...
- pjc50 7y ago
  > this is a huge negative rather than an achievement from the western perspective. To you and I, yes, but I don't think we can take for granted that everyone or even a majority of the West thinks that way these days. Especially if you told them it was to be used for immigration control. We've already got the mass surveillance TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunted_(2015_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunted_(2015_TV_series)
  - xster 7y ago
    oh ya, for sake of brevity, that was totally a coastal HN crowd facing message. I'm sure people living in Chicago where 40-60 people are being shot each weekend has a different perspective.
AFascistWorld 7y ago
You have to understand that Chinese prefer security over freedom. They support this kind of measures since majority of them probably won't be bothered by it their whole lives, as their typical response: if you don't illegal things, what's to fear for. And the state media has been touting for years that China is the safest country on earth that "you can buy skewers at midnight", that America is the example of a failed society. They mostly likely are sincerely and proudly presenting this as a superiority over the tumultuous west.
- varjag 7y ago
  I don't know, hongkongers seem to prefer freedom.
  - bitskits 7y ago
    Exactly. HongKongers dont consider themselves Chinese. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/28/hongkongers-identifying-chinese-record-low-10-youth-proud-citizens-poll/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/28/hongkongers-identifyin...
  - iiuytrty 7y ago
    Only the minority that are protesting.
    - NicoJuicy 7y ago
      "minority"
      - yyhhsj0521 7y ago
        This doesn't help the discussion. Also, anything less than half is a minority.
        brianwawok 7y ago
        If a country is 33.33% of three different groups, are all 3 a minority?
lloydatkinson 7y ago
> The BBC willingly plays along and does not even question the capabilities either way. They've got a lot of experience doing this since the conservative government started applying it's will to the BBC after choosing the board of directors. Ther'es no longer a sense of "balanced" and "unbiased" news and it's glaringly obvious just by watching their news for a few weeks. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/13/government-choose-bbc-board-john-whittingdale https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/13/government-cho...
- Angostura 7y ago
  Odd isn't it? I watch their news for more than a few weeks and for the most part find it both balanced and unbiased. I think there were legitimate gripes about its coverage surrounding the Scottish devolution debate, but other than that - it's very good.
  - hardlianotion 7y ago
    What were those legitimate gripes?
    - Angostura 7y ago
      I would say that there was probably a case that the BBC News coverage leaned against the independence cause. (I speak as someone who wanted Scotland to stay in the Union). I would say in partial mitigation that the one bias the BBC probably does have is a bias towards the status quo.
  - SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
    It's an old trope, but the concept that everyone thinks that the BBC is biased (against their point of view, naturally) is probably a pretty good indicator of their neutrality.
inimino 7y ago
The BBC is one of very few respected foreign news outlets that is not routinely blocked by the GFW. They generally have a more China-friendly stance than US news media.
- teknologist 7y ago
  The BBC has been blocked by the GFW since around mid-2018 when they migrated to HTTPS. The Chinese censors could no longer snoop on or selectively block the traffic.
  - inimino 7y ago
    Ah, thanks, I should probably have checked the current situation before repeating what I remember. Random thought: it would be interesting to compare news services that are and aren't blocked and see if the ones that haven't been blocked yet tend to be more positive on Beijing in their coverage.
- adinobro 7y ago
  The BBC is blocked all (it is blocked right now because of the Hong Kong protest/riot happening at the moment) the time and its live news feed is also cut off regularly in the middle of stories. That being said it is trusted a lot more than CCN & Foxnews which are the other two news sources that are on cable TV (neither are blocked at the moment). I wouldn't really say that the BBC has a China-friendly stance. I would say that it tries to be more objective most of the time (which I agree with when compared to CCN & Fox News).
  - inimino 7y ago
    I was comparing more with the NYT, WSJ, Bloomberg, all of which have broken major stories that were critical of Beijing. I haven't seen as much of that from the BBC. Fox I consider mainly to provide domestic entertainment, so whatever China bias they have wouldn't be that relevant. It sure would be interesting to someday learn about how all these decisions of what to block get made.
geowwy 7y ago
> Marketing at its best, they want everyone to be fully aware of > their capabilities. Wouldn't be surprised if they were > overstated, so as to keep citizens in check. The marketing is aimed at foreign countries who might buy the technology.
- the_seraphim 7y ago
  Saikō no hanbai-ryoku ga kidzutai yokusei no min 最高の販売力が気付たい抑制の民 >Marketing at its best >Want capabilities to be noticed >Keeps population in check I apologise for the poor japanese, my attempt at a haiku
- squarefoot 7y ago
  If some government buys this technology, they better demand full code -and data- disclosure, including any hardware design and firmware, because adding exceptions to skip certain individuals (spies?) or use it as a surveillance network that phones home local images hidden in updates would be less than trivial.

by mrich 7y ago

chrischen 7y ago

You can bet they only demo things if they are 100% sure it will work (in a very controlled environment not unlike North Korean "tours"), and even then often it will fail because of Soviet-style bureaucratic incompetence.

lnsru 7y ago
I also demo only things, I am sure 100% it will work. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense. Every YouTube technical demo is repeated hundred times until perfect video is made to make an impression, it works 100%. That’s the purpose of demoing something. About bureaucratic incompetence I have no opinion.
- spraak 7y ago
  You're arguing semantics when the point is that they likely aren't ask sophisticated as they make themselves look.
  - lnsru 7y ago
    I heard rumors, that Russian KBG had always eyes on all high levels foreigners in the country. All of them were observed expecting to find something interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kompromat Why should China do it differently? BBC journalist is highly valued target for sure. And there you get bonus points for using this information to showcase facial recognition system in 7 minutes.
    - concerned_user 7y ago
      First of all it is KGB, and secondly Kompromat is just russian word for blackmail, and I am pretty sure nowadays FSB and any other self-respecting agencies in other countries always keep and eye on influential, wealthy or otherwise having political impact people in their country, that is just national security basics really.
- chrischen 7y ago
  Tell that to Microsoft haha.
h0h0h0h0111 7y ago
Both your clauses seem to contradict one another

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

majia 7y ago

> Wouldn't be surprised if they were overstated, so as to keep citizens in check. This is a little stretching. Most Chinese audience can’t or won’t watch BBC.

megaremote 7y ago

> The BBC willingly plays along and does not even question the capabilities either way. What should they do? Not run the story? It is of interest, it is scary to a lot of people. It does also warn people wanting to hide from it. Should no one talk about this technology, or China's current capabilities? Do you think that would be better?

mrich 7y ago
No, they should run it, but they should discuss why the Chinese side chose to demo it, and why they appear proud of it. They should also discuss the limitations.

xster 7y ago

There's such a funny mismatch of culture and display of poor international PR sense too. Based on some cursory search, it looks like it's another one of those local-government-pioneered pilot/experiments [1] like the credit score (except there are dozens of cities in that pilot). The second tier city local government, trying to tout their achievements at the national level, then goes on a PR spree [2] (probably to earn points for the local party secretary). They even proudly market it as "Guiyang has 'Skynet' everywhere. No matter where you go, there are eyes on you,". I can totally visualize the locals thinking, who wouldn't think this is cool and an indication of Guiyang finally being ready to join the ranks of the civilized world. Meanwhile, nobody at the local level thinks (or has enough international context to know) that this is a huge negative rather than an achievement from the western perspective. They probably can't even wrap their heads around why wouldn't everyone want this. Smelling the big story, in goes the BBC also, presenting this story as this state of the iron curtain, straight as constructed from Xi's directives. The 2 sides of the story are just living in very different worlds. [1] http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1093864.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1093864.shtml [2] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eoO1dqEQhHYJ:www.eguiyang.com.cn/2019-05/30/content_37475598.htm http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:eoO1dqE...

pjc50 7y ago
> this is a huge negative rather than an achievement from the western perspective. To you and I, yes, but I don't think we can take for granted that everyone or even a majority of the West thinks that way these days. Especially if you told them it was to be used for immigration control. We've already got the mass surveillance TV show: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunted_(2015_TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunted_(2015_TV_series)
- xster 7y ago
  oh ya, for sake of brevity, that was totally a coastal HN crowd facing message. I'm sure people living in Chicago where 40-60 people are being shot each weekend has a different perspective.

AFascistWorld 7y ago

You have to understand that Chinese prefer security over freedom. They support this kind of measures since majority of them probably won't be bothered by it their whole lives, as their typical response: if you don't illegal things, what's to fear for. And the state media has been touting for years that China is the safest country on earth that "you can buy skewers at midnight", that America is the example of a failed society. They mostly likely are sincerely and proudly presenting this as a superiority over the tumultuous west.

varjag 7y ago
I don't know, hongkongers seem to prefer freedom.
- bitskits 7y ago
  Exactly. HongKongers dont consider themselves Chinese. https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/28/hongkongers-identifying-chinese-record-low-10-youth-proud-citizens-poll/ https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/06/28/hongkongers-identifyin...
- iiuytrty 7y ago
  Only the minority that are protesting.
  - NicoJuicy 7y ago
    "minority"
    - yyhhsj0521 7y ago
      This doesn't help the discussion. Also, anything less than half is a minority.
      - brianwawok 7y ago
        If a country is 33.33% of three different groups, are all 3 a minority?

lloydatkinson 7y ago

> The BBC willingly plays along and does not even question the capabilities either way. They've got a lot of experience doing this since the conservative government started applying it's will to the BBC after choosing the board of directors. Ther'es no longer a sense of "balanced" and "unbiased" news and it's glaringly obvious just by watching their news for a few weeks. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/13/government-choose-bbc-board-john-whittingdale https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/13/government-cho...

Angostura 7y ago
Odd isn't it? I watch their news for more than a few weeks and for the most part find it both balanced and unbiased. I think there were legitimate gripes about its coverage surrounding the Scottish devolution debate, but other than that - it's very good.
- hardlianotion 7y ago
  What were those legitimate gripes?
  - Angostura 7y ago
    I would say that there was probably a case that the BBC News coverage leaned against the independence cause. (I speak as someone who wanted Scotland to stay in the Union). I would say in partial mitigation that the one bias the BBC probably does have is a bias towards the status quo.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  It's an old trope, but the concept that everyone thinks that the BBC is biased (against their point of view, naturally) is probably a pretty good indicator of their neutrality.

inimino 7y ago

The BBC is one of very few respected foreign news outlets that is not routinely blocked by the GFW. They generally have a more China-friendly stance than US news media.

teknologist 7y ago
The BBC has been blocked by the GFW since around mid-2018 when they migrated to HTTPS. The Chinese censors could no longer snoop on or selectively block the traffic.
- inimino 7y ago
  Ah, thanks, I should probably have checked the current situation before repeating what I remember. Random thought: it would be interesting to compare news services that are and aren't blocked and see if the ones that haven't been blocked yet tend to be more positive on Beijing in their coverage.
adinobro 7y ago
The BBC is blocked all (it is blocked right now because of the Hong Kong protest/riot happening at the moment) the time and its live news feed is also cut off regularly in the middle of stories. That being said it is trusted a lot more than CCN & Foxnews which are the other two news sources that are on cable TV (neither are blocked at the moment). I wouldn't really say that the BBC has a China-friendly stance. I would say that it tries to be more objective most of the time (which I agree with when compared to CCN & Fox News).
- inimino 7y ago
  I was comparing more with the NYT, WSJ, Bloomberg, all of which have broken major stories that were critical of Beijing. I haven't seen as much of that from the BBC. Fox I consider mainly to provide domestic entertainment, so whatever China bias they have wouldn't be that relevant. It sure would be interesting to someday learn about how all these decisions of what to block get made.

geowwy 7y ago

> Marketing at its best, they want everyone to be fully aware of > their capabilities. Wouldn't be surprised if they were > overstated, so as to keep citizens in check. The marketing is aimed at foreign countries who might buy the technology.

the_seraphim 7y ago
Saikō no hanbai-ryoku ga kidzutai yokusei no min 最高の販売力が気付たい抑制の民 >Marketing at its best >Want capabilities to be noticed >Keeps population in check I apologise for the poor japanese, my attempt at a haiku
squarefoot 7y ago
If some government buys this technology, they better demand full code -and data- disclosure, including any hardware design and firmware, because adding exceptions to skip certain individuals (spies?) or use it as a surveillance network that phones home local images hidden in updates would be less than trivial.