7 ms·

Without all the facts, mainlanders will never be in a clear position to make a proper decision. That's how the system is designed.

ubercow13 7y ago
Isn't this exactly the point of view that the article is arguing against?
- kevingadd 7y ago
  There seems to be a subtle distinction: The point is not that mainlanders can't or won't see the truth, but that their ability to make informed decisions is being undermined. The article argues that many mainlanders are doing their best and making good decisions despite being undermined by their government... but there's certainly a lot being done to stop them.
chrischen 7y ago
To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...
- xmprt 7y ago
  To be fair, even with all the facts and being well-informed, I doubt a mainlander would risk all the trouble they'd get into for supporting HK.
- cryptonector 7y ago
  Talk about anti-democratic.
  - chrischen 7y ago
    Democracy is fair, not efficient.
    - Nasrudith 7y ago
      That is hilarious given the lack of efficency of every alternative seen so far. The trains running on time is a myth - because the time they arrive is defined as "on time" all while denying reality.
      - chrischen 7y ago
        Almost all companies are governed by dictatorships.
- Y_Y 7y ago
  Imagine Apple were run by professionals! They'd employ sweatshop labour, charge exorbitant prices, and control a colossal pile of cash for which they cannot find a use.
  - sersi 7y ago
    And somehow completely fail to listen to their users when their users tell them that a working keyboard is a necessity in a laptop :)
- paxys 7y ago
  And what exactly is a "professional" governor?
dragonelite 7y ago
From what i gathered 140 million mainlanders travel abroad each year. and 140 million mainlanders return to China. That tells you enough people vote with their feets, wallet and voice.
- GuiA 7y ago
  What do they see when they travel abroad though? A large portion (if not a majority?) of those 140 million travelers go through organized tour groups, where they jump from attraction to attraction, staying half an hour or so to take pictures before rushing back to the bus to head to the next stop. This French photographer was allowed to join such a group and it's fascinating: http://www.slate.fr/grand-format/touristes-chinois-europe-jeremy-suyker http://www.slate.fr/grand-format/touristes-chinois-europe-je... Choice quotes from the photographer (translated): "Costs are cut on everything. For 10 days, we ate Chinese food for lunch and dinner. Before I started this project, I thought that tourists always ate Chinese food because they weren't curious. But cheap backroom cafeterias are imposed on them, where the meal (often inedible) costs 5 euros per person. We only took 10 minutes to eat, and I'd always be the last to finish. After Paris, we were supposed to sleep in the "French village" of Dijon [original is in quote because Dijon is a large city]. But the hotel was situated along the highway, at Sauvigny-sous-Bois [about an hour away from Dijon]. That night, with Lan, we decided to take two people to Relais Fleuri, a nice restaurant next to the hotel, without the guide, so they could discover French gastronomy. When we got back, the guide was really upset. The next day, I got an email from the agency saying that if it happened again, I'd be kicked out from the group." "The majority of guides are not there to teach. When Chinese tourists go back home, they haven't learned much; in fact, stereotypes tend to be reinforced [...] a few of them complained about the [Chinese meals], and that they wouldn't visit markets, for instance, but those criticisms were very limited. It's a shame, because the only contact they have with French people is at the register, when they buy something." "I was shocked by how resigned people were. You're not supposed to disagree with anything. The guide was considered like a boss whose orders had to be followed, and who should never be contradicted. Ours was 34 years old, and went into tourism for money. But he didn't know anything about Europe, and spent the whole time telling cliché anecdotes about cities. He even got monument names wrong! His only goal was to sell additional options, such as gondola rides, to get a bonus."

ubercow13 7y ago

Isn't this exactly the point of view that the article is arguing against?

kevingadd 7y ago
There seems to be a subtle distinction: The point is not that mainlanders can't or won't see the truth, but that their ability to make informed decisions is being undermined. The article argues that many mainlanders are doing their best and making good decisions despite being undermined by their government... but there's certainly a lot being done to stop them.

chrischen 7y ago

To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...

xmprt 7y ago
To be fair, even with all the facts and being well-informed, I doubt a mainlander would risk all the trouble they'd get into for supporting HK.
cryptonector 7y ago
Talk about anti-democratic.
- chrischen 7y ago
  Democracy is fair, not efficient.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    That is hilarious given the lack of efficency of every alternative seen so far. The trains running on time is a myth - because the time they arrive is defined as "on time" all while denying reality.
    - chrischen 7y ago
      Almost all companies are governed by dictatorships.
Y_Y 7y ago
Imagine Apple were run by professionals! They'd employ sweatshop labour, charge exorbitant prices, and control a colossal pile of cash for which they cannot find a use.
- sersi 7y ago
  And somehow completely fail to listen to their users when their users tell them that a working keyboard is a necessity in a laptop :)
paxys 7y ago
And what exactly is a "professional" governor?

dragonelite 7y ago

From what i gathered 140 million mainlanders travel abroad each year. and 140 million mainlanders return to China. That tells you enough people vote with their feets, wallet and voice.

GuiA 7y ago
What do they see when they travel abroad though? A large portion (if not a majority?) of those 140 million travelers go through organized tour groups, where they jump from attraction to attraction, staying half an hour or so to take pictures before rushing back to the bus to head to the next stop. This French photographer was allowed to join such a group and it's fascinating: http://www.slate.fr/grand-format/touristes-chinois-europe-jeremy-suyker http://www.slate.fr/grand-format/touristes-chinois-europe-je... Choice quotes from the photographer (translated): "Costs are cut on everything. For 10 days, we ate Chinese food for lunch and dinner. Before I started this project, I thought that tourists always ate Chinese food because they weren't curious. But cheap backroom cafeterias are imposed on them, where the meal (often inedible) costs 5 euros per person. We only took 10 minutes to eat, and I'd always be the last to finish. After Paris, we were supposed to sleep in the "French village" of Dijon [original is in quote because Dijon is a large city]. But the hotel was situated along the highway, at Sauvigny-sous-Bois [about an hour away from Dijon]. That night, with Lan, we decided to take two people to Relais Fleuri, a nice restaurant next to the hotel, without the guide, so they could discover French gastronomy. When we got back, the guide was really upset. The next day, I got an email from the agency saying that if it happened again, I'd be kicked out from the group." "The majority of guides are not there to teach. When Chinese tourists go back home, they haven't learned much; in fact, stereotypes tend to be reinforced [...] a few of them complained about the [Chinese meals], and that they wouldn't visit markets, for instance, but those criticisms were very limited. It's a shame, because the only contact they have with French people is at the register, when they buy something." "I was shocked by how resigned people were. You're not supposed to disagree with anything. The guide was considered like a boss whose orders had to be followed, and who should never be contradicted. Ours was 34 years old, and went into tourism for money. But he didn't know anything about Europe, and spent the whole time telling cliché anecdotes about cities. He even got monument names wrong! His only goal was to sell additional options, such as gondola rides, to get a bonus."