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The pentagram at the bottom left of the video is an instant deal-breaker for millions of regular folks... being aware of social sensitivities is a big part of

The pentagram at the bottom left of the video is an instant deal-breaker for millions of regular folks... being aware of social sensitivities is a big part of being successful for projects that aim for broad adoption.

Teever 7y ago
If the star in the bottom corner was a Star of David instead of a pentagram and you said the exact same thing what do you think the response should be?
- mieseratte 7y ago
  The same thing? If you want mass appeal you must appeal to the masses. Using loaded symbology is a good way to torch your hard work.
  - xvector 7y ago
    Clearly, this phone is not intended for mass appeal, so I don't think this is an issue :)
    - dkersten 7y ago
      If you check their website, the symbol isn’t anywhere to be seen (at least, I couldn’t find it)m so its clearly for the CCC talk only. CCC talks aren’t exactly meant for “mass appeal”.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    So that explains why religion, rock music and the dollar never became particularly popular. I did wonder.
sundbry 7y ago
Not to mention her dress code. Completely mindless of her appearance. If you're going to talk in front of a crowd maybe look the part? If I were here boss I'd be pissed she's representing the company like that.
- smolsky 7y ago
  She is the CTO. So, let's rephrase your statement: "If she were your boss, ...."
- kompakt 7y ago
  That talk was at CCCamp 2019. I'd say most attendees looked like that.
- alpaca128 7y ago
  Honestly I find people more trustworthy if they don't feel the need to dress like Mr. Burns. It's a tech talk, not a catwalk.
cf498 7y ago
I dont get it, can you explain?
- Kalium 7y ago
  For many people, it's a Satanic symbol and thus they want nothing at all to do with it.
  - kompakt 7y ago
    It's clearly not a satanic pentagram but apparently some sort of authors inside joke. Sure, it's based on it, but as you can see there's more elements added https://imgur.com/PxKw5Yw https://imgur.com/PxKw5Yw Throughout history five pointed star or its variations have been used in various cultures, ideologies etc. so I don't see it as a "deal breaker".
    - ngold 7y ago
      That's pretty hilarious, then again I'm not the masses. Still awesome though.
    - antisemiotic 7y ago
      Looks like a ritual to protect against nasal demons.
inflatableDodo 7y ago
As to why it became occult, one of my favourite versions is that phi was used for engineering and one of the easiest ways to get phi is to draw a pentagram, but this was a trade secret, so one of the first things you do when drawing plans for a new church is draw a pentagram, measure off phi, then erase it.
- lostgame 7y ago
  This. I learned this, to my amazement, in Freemasonry. I got a giggle, since it's inverse is the symbol of Baphomet, and all that.
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    Most of Freemasonry's really useful secrets got revealed during the enlightenment, I suspect.
    - lostgame 7y ago
      No, most of Freemaonsry's really useful secrets come from an extreme measure of self discipline, and through the correspondence courses you work through with your Sponsor. The Rituals of Freemasonry are something millions of people are shoved through, in the interest of what we call 'knife and fork Masonry' - this is the typical image of usually the largest Lodge in your City or Town, where businessmen congregate to drink beer and make connections. There are few who take Freemasonry seriously for its rituals, and even fewer who choose to make it past the Blue Lodge (3°), and move on to the Scottish or York rites, which can go all the way up to 33°. The 33rs Degree is basically an honour. There are very, very few of them. When someone tells me they had a friend of a friend who was a 33rd Degree Freemason I just smile and nod. Freemasonry is about making 'good people better'. How much you get out of it is entirely dependant on how much you put into it.
reaperducer 7y ago
The pentagram at the bottom left of the video is an instant deal-breaker for millions of regular folks Yeah, it's a little tone-deaf. I understand it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek and all that. But if, for example, they used a swastika, even if they were using it in the context one of the dozens of cultures for whom it's a normal symbol, it would still be tone deaf. A lot of people here are saying it's just a symbol, etc... But if it was a Christian cross, I bet a lot of HN readers would flinch with "I'm not supporting some fundy company!"
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  One of the clear messages I get from looking at the past couple of thousand years of history is that I should really try and avoid getting hung up on symbols. Also looking to history, it is remarks such as this that will probably lead to that outcome.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    That's great if you're Mr. Spock and the rest of the world is a bunch of Vulcans who can control their brains in the most logical way. But human beings create connections in their brains, and the whole purpose of symbols is to create a connection. If you use a symbol that has a particular widespread meaning, then people are going to think of that meaning when you use the symbol, even if they then figure out what you really mean a second or two later. That's why companies trademark logos, and why other companies trying to associate themselves with those companies try to make their logos look similar. (Think of all the knock-off Starbucks-themed coffee shops around the world.)
    - inflatableDodo 7y ago
      Oh this is fun. I'm going to wait just a little longer...
      - RandomBacon 7y ago
        This section of the comments is... interesting. I wasn't expecting to read about this kind of stuff on HN today. But it's not over-the-top or obnoxious, so it's interesting to learn a little about what other people do/believe/practice.
TaylorAlexander 7y ago
I don’t mean to be disrespectful but I find this view weird. The pentagram is on the slides for this technical presentation. Millions of regular folks won’t be watching this video I would think. Maybe I find it weird because I don’t place any significance on that symbol, but you’re talking about slides on a pretty obscure talk.
dkersten 7y ago
It’s a CCC talk, millions of regular folks are not going to be watching CCC talks.
lostgame 7y ago
What? A regular, upright pentagram? And also, you know some of us are actually practicing Ritual or Ceremonial Magick, and this is actually a sacred symbol for us? I'd understand if it was upside down, which is part of the laughable LaVeyan Satanic cult, but I assure you there are likely people you know who may be members of very serious Magical Orders. I will not mention my specific associations with any of these Orders, but even Freemasonry, which I was involved in for years, if studied carefully, has its roots in Ceremonial Magick. Their use of the pentagram was highly attractive to me - and, furthermore, funny, and clearly educated in Magick to an extent - the I/O symbol at the top is an adorable nod to that being the node of the Spirit.
- schaefer 7y ago
  I studied and practiced Wicca for years before settling into Buddhism. I've personally got no quams about the presence of this symbol. but I also have lots of family and friends in rural, conservative, christian USA. I assure you, upside down or right side up... If I tried to show them this video, they would flip out. There would be no talk about privacy or cell phones. All discussion would be hyper focused on the presence of this symbol. Yes, the would equally flip out if the symbol had been a Star and Cresent (Islam), or Swastica (Hinduism, Buddhism, et. all). I know this debate isn't new (safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc.) but the only point I'm trying to make is that some people will always find the choice to include any religious symbolism in a technical talk divisive. (which sometimes is fine if we are aware and choose deliberately...) -- Hopefully I'm allowed brief tangent back on topic - just in case anyone associated with the project/talk notices this post (and grandparent post): I'm super excited about this phone, and as soon as there's concrete data about comparability for US carriers, I would love to purchase one.
  - jancsika 7y ago
    > If I tried to show them this video, they would flip out. Flip out because the Wiccan CTO is using a pentagram, or because the CTO is Wiccan? I certainly understand the desire to separate religious iconography from technical slides, but I don't think your example has much to do with that.
Taniwha 7y ago
it's just a pretty design, anything else is rampant superstition
rimliu 7y ago
You'd have it tough in Soviet Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_quality_mark_of_the_USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_quality_mark_of_the_USSR
yoz-y 7y ago
Maybe the developers are from Morocco? (I have no idea, but I've never seen bad association with an upright pentagram)

Teever 7y ago

If the star in the bottom corner was a Star of David instead of a pentagram and you said the exact same thing what do you think the response should be?

mieseratte 7y ago
The same thing? If you want mass appeal you must appeal to the masses. Using loaded symbology is a good way to torch your hard work.
- xvector 7y ago
  Clearly, this phone is not intended for mass appeal, so I don't think this is an issue :)
  - dkersten 7y ago
    If you check their website, the symbol isn’t anywhere to be seen (at least, I couldn’t find it)m so its clearly for the CCC talk only. CCC talks aren’t exactly meant for “mass appeal”.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  So that explains why religion, rock music and the dollar never became particularly popular. I did wonder.

sundbry 7y ago

Not to mention her dress code. Completely mindless of her appearance. If you're going to talk in front of a crowd maybe look the part? If I were here boss I'd be pissed she's representing the company like that.

smolsky 7y ago
She is the CTO. So, let's rephrase your statement: "If she were your boss, ...."
kompakt 7y ago
That talk was at CCCamp 2019. I'd say most attendees looked like that.
alpaca128 7y ago
Honestly I find people more trustworthy if they don't feel the need to dress like Mr. Burns. It's a tech talk, not a catwalk.

cf498 7y ago

I dont get it, can you explain?

Kalium 7y ago
For many people, it's a Satanic symbol and thus they want nothing at all to do with it.
- kompakt 7y ago
  It's clearly not a satanic pentagram but apparently some sort of authors inside joke. Sure, it's based on it, but as you can see there's more elements added https://imgur.com/PxKw5Yw https://imgur.com/PxKw5Yw Throughout history five pointed star or its variations have been used in various cultures, ideologies etc. so I don't see it as a "deal breaker".
  - ngold 7y ago
    That's pretty hilarious, then again I'm not the masses. Still awesome though.
  - antisemiotic 7y ago
    Looks like a ritual to protect against nasal demons.

inflatableDodo 7y ago

As to why it became occult, one of my favourite versions is that phi was used for engineering and one of the easiest ways to get phi is to draw a pentagram, but this was a trade secret, so one of the first things you do when drawing plans for a new church is draw a pentagram, measure off phi, then erase it.

lostgame 7y ago
This. I learned this, to my amazement, in Freemasonry. I got a giggle, since it's inverse is the symbol of Baphomet, and all that.
- inflatableDodo 7y ago
  Most of Freemasonry's really useful secrets got revealed during the enlightenment, I suspect.
  - lostgame 7y ago
    No, most of Freemaonsry's really useful secrets come from an extreme measure of self discipline, and through the correspondence courses you work through with your Sponsor. The Rituals of Freemasonry are something millions of people are shoved through, in the interest of what we call 'knife and fork Masonry' - this is the typical image of usually the largest Lodge in your City or Town, where businessmen congregate to drink beer and make connections. There are few who take Freemasonry seriously for its rituals, and even fewer who choose to make it past the Blue Lodge (3°), and move on to the Scottish or York rites, which can go all the way up to 33°. The 33rs Degree is basically an honour. There are very, very few of them. When someone tells me they had a friend of a friend who was a 33rd Degree Freemason I just smile and nod. Freemasonry is about making 'good people better'. How much you get out of it is entirely dependant on how much you put into it.

reaperducer 7y ago

The pentagram at the bottom left of the video is an instant deal-breaker for millions of regular folks Yeah, it's a little tone-deaf. I understand it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek and all that. But if, for example, they used a swastika, even if they were using it in the context one of the dozens of cultures for whom it's a normal symbol, it would still be tone deaf. A lot of people here are saying it's just a symbol, etc... But if it was a Christian cross, I bet a lot of HN readers would flinch with "I'm not supporting some fundy company!"

inflatableDodo 7y ago
One of the clear messages I get from looking at the past couple of thousand years of history is that I should really try and avoid getting hung up on symbols. Also looking to history, it is remarks such as this that will probably lead to that outcome.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  That's great if you're Mr. Spock and the rest of the world is a bunch of Vulcans who can control their brains in the most logical way. But human beings create connections in their brains, and the whole purpose of symbols is to create a connection. If you use a symbol that has a particular widespread meaning, then people are going to think of that meaning when you use the symbol, even if they then figure out what you really mean a second or two later. That's why companies trademark logos, and why other companies trying to associate themselves with those companies try to make their logos look similar. (Think of all the knock-off Starbucks-themed coffee shops around the world.)
  - inflatableDodo 7y ago
    Oh this is fun. I'm going to wait just a little longer...
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      This section of the comments is... interesting. I wasn't expecting to read about this kind of stuff on HN today. But it's not over-the-top or obnoxious, so it's interesting to learn a little about what other people do/believe/practice.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago

I don’t mean to be disrespectful but I find this view weird. The pentagram is on the slides for this technical presentation. Millions of regular folks won’t be watching this video I would think. Maybe I find it weird because I don’t place any significance on that symbol, but you’re talking about slides on a pretty obscure talk.

dkersten 7y ago

It’s a CCC talk, millions of regular folks are not going to be watching CCC talks.

lostgame 7y ago

What? A regular, upright pentagram? And also, you know some of us are actually practicing Ritual or Ceremonial Magick, and this is actually a sacred symbol for us? I'd understand if it was upside down, which is part of the laughable LaVeyan Satanic cult, but I assure you there are likely people you know who may be members of very serious Magical Orders. I will not mention my specific associations with any of these Orders, but even Freemasonry, which I was involved in for years, if studied carefully, has its roots in Ceremonial Magick. Their use of the pentagram was highly attractive to me - and, furthermore, funny, and clearly educated in Magick to an extent - the I/O symbol at the top is an adorable nod to that being the node of the Spirit.

schaefer 7y ago
I studied and practiced Wicca for years before settling into Buddhism. I've personally got no quams about the presence of this symbol. but I also have lots of family and friends in rural, conservative, christian USA. I assure you, upside down or right side up... If I tried to show them this video, they would flip out. There would be no talk about privacy or cell phones. All discussion would be hyper focused on the presence of this symbol. Yes, the would equally flip out if the symbol had been a Star and Cresent (Islam), or Swastica (Hinduism, Buddhism, et. all). I know this debate isn't new (safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc.) but the only point I'm trying to make is that some people will always find the choice to include any religious symbolism in a technical talk divisive. (which sometimes is fine if we are aware and choose deliberately...) -- Hopefully I'm allowed brief tangent back on topic - just in case anyone associated with the project/talk notices this post (and grandparent post): I'm super excited about this phone, and as soon as there's concrete data about comparability for US carriers, I would love to purchase one.
- jancsika 7y ago
  > If I tried to show them this video, they would flip out. Flip out because the Wiccan CTO is using a pentagram, or because the CTO is Wiccan? I certainly understand the desire to separate religious iconography from technical slides, but I don't think your example has much to do with that.

Taniwha 7y ago

it's just a pretty design, anything else is rampant superstition

rimliu 7y ago

You'd have it tough in Soviet Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_quality_mark_of_the_USSR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_quality_mark_of_the_USSR

yoz-y 7y ago

Maybe the developers are from Morocco? (I have no idea, but I've never seen bad association with an upright pentagram)