6 ms·

Are you fit? as in, do you lift weights or are active in sports that require strength? I ask because I wonder about the effects of extended fasts on muscle los

by kace91 7y ago

Are you fit? as in, do you lift weights or are active in sports that require strength? I ask because I wonder about the effects of extended fasts on muscle loss/retention, a big problem cutting weight for some people is that they get rid of some muscle mass along with the calories they wanted to eliminate.

dvt 7y ago
I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.
- bradhoffman 7y ago
  Lifting specifically, or any sort of physical activity? I’ve been running and IF for the past month in order to cut my BF %. I was at about 16%, but I’d like to get down to 12%.
  - dvt 7y ago
    Lifting; I did Stronglifts 5x5 3 times a week. Part of the reason I stopped is that it got kind of boring and I got absolutely sick of doing squats 3 times a week. It sucked, it was hard (especially on a caloric deficit), but it worked.
  - mrosett 7y ago
    I've found that lifting is much better for weight loss than running/biking. I've gained weight while running 30-40 miles/week and typically lose weight while lifting (if I pay attention to my calories.) A lot of people say the same. If you're focused on BF%, lifting is even more appealing since you'll be building muscle/reducing bf% even at a constant weight.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. So what happens? You lose muscle and fat in the same ratio? Or do you keep the fat?
  - dvt 7y ago
    I feel that my body kind of adjusts to the fasting and I just don't lose much of anything.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      That sounds to me like "I eat more to make up the calories when I'm not fasting".
  - alexbanks 7y ago
    I haven't seen any studies that imply that fasting increases or decreases metabolic rates, which would mean that most people probably won't implicitly gain or lose significant amounts of weight just by switching to intermittent fasting. There are people that literally just start skipping breakfast while keeping lunch/dinner/snacking the same. This is both technically intermittent fasting but also a reduction in overall caloric consumption. These people sometimes attribute their newfound weightloss to IF, when really they just started skipping a calorically dense meal every day.
  - ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
    Fat first cus it’s easier to break down. Muscle afterward.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      That's what I would assume, but they said the opposite.
- pmart123 7y ago
  Interesting. I just started experimenting with a 16-8 fast, and I have noticed that it is hard to eat larger portions when you constrain the eating window to eight hours. Did you think it helped maintain your 15% BF?
  - dvt 7y ago
    > Did you think it helped maintain your 15% BF? Nope. I stopped counting macros and started eating just whatever again at the beginning of the summer and I'm slowly gaining the fat back. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts (at least for me).
pizza234 7y ago
I'm personally very skeptical [as well]. I notice that almost nobody that recounts their fasting experience ever mentions sport. I personally found very hard already to progress on weightlifting during diet cycles, as I need to cut on volume significantly; can't imagine to do that while fasting, unless fasting would "flip a switch" in how the (my) body works, which I doubt.
- rsync 7y ago
  "I'm personally very skeptical [as well]. I notice that almost nobody that recounts their fasting experience ever mentions sport." Allow me to step right up. First, as you might expect, aerobic and endurance exercise benefits greatly from being in a fasted (16-24 hr) state. You're light, quick and your body is devoting zero blood flow (and other resources) to digestion. I suspect you're not surprised by this. Second, I do a 1.5 hour heavy leg workout which includes squats, deadlifts and other assorted "big" movements with weight that is significant, compared to my body weight. No issues at all. I wouldn't do this on a 24 hour fast, but it is my regular habit to do this workout while in a 16-18 hour fasted state and in general I have very slightly better results than if I had eaten recently. Again, the issue is the amount of blood flow (and other resources) your body is putting into digestion. Finally, while it is easy and enjoyable to do my BJJ workouts in a fasted state, I cannot, then, do several rounds of sparring at the end without more recent calories. Or rather, I can but I after round one or two I am running out of gas. YMMV. You should just try it. It costs nothing.
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    First, as you might expect, aerobic and endurance exercise benefits greatly from being in a fasted (16-24 hr) state If that's true, why isn't it a universal practice in amateur and professional athletic competition? (Or, for that matter, why isn't it banned?)
    - argyleaf 7y ago
      I can't speak to endurance (I got into IF after my endurance-athlete days) but I know that body weight-based athletes do this to perform better. My experience is specific to rock climbing. When you are right at the edge of your abilities being just a couple pounds lighter can feel like a world of difference (people hone down their rack to precisely what they need for a route, nothing more), especially on sport and boulder problems. My anecdata points to it being great for the project/performative aspects of the sport but as a tool for consistent progression/improvement, I am less confident in stating anything.
heymijo 7y ago
There is a recent US Military study that shows that under a severe caloric deficit and with increased energy expenditure that yes, you still preserve lean body mass. [0] Granted this was not fasting, but it's interesting nonetheless. Don't be thrown off by the title. Yes, one group received testosterone, but even the placebo group that did not receive anabolic steroids, lost nearly 10 pounds of fat without losing any appreciable amount of lean body mass. Dr. Peter Attia wrote about it in his newsletter this past week. [1] Between my anecdotal experience of not feeling like I lose much lean body mass while fasting, this study above, and recent evidence from studies shown that "muscle memory", where a muscle can quickly regain any lost size it has had, is in fact real...I don't lose much sleep over losing muscle while fasting. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352396419305018 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235239641... [1] https://peterattiamd.com/can-you-preserve-lean-body-mass-during-semi-starvation/ https://peterattiamd.com/can-you-preserve-lean-body-mass-dur...
jniedrauer 7y ago
I can speak to this a bit. I practiced intermittent fasting (eating once per day) for nearly a decade, while maintaining a very low activity level. My resting metabolic rate dropped significantly during this time (down to about 1300 kcal/day). About a year ago, I increased my activity level significantly (distance running, hiking, strength training, cycling) and quickly found that: a) I wasn't recovering quickly enough b) It was extremely difficult to take in enough calories for a day in a single meal c) I had very low energy when in ketosis Eventually I gave up and just started eating on a typical 3-4 meal a day schedule. My RMR steadily increased back to baseline, I got a lot more explosive energy, my body began responding much more rapidly to training, and my recovery speed improved significantly. Personally I think that intermittent fasting is not a good idea if you are very physically active. That's just my opinion from my own experience.
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  There is a range of IF between one meal per day, and not doing it at all. Prof Sachin Panda’s research on mice shows effects of 12hrs/12hrs, 8hrs eat/16hrs fast, and fasting some days but not every day. Did you experiment with any other patterns?
kdbg 7y ago
I think for that you might want to research Protein sparing modified fasting, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-sparing_modified_fast https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-sparing_modified_fas... Gist of it is you still cut significant calories only eating like 500-800 a day in mostly low fat protien rich foods. Targeting only enough protien to avoid muscle wasting. While I'm no doctor or nutritionist, my understanding is that it's for that case, you want some of the benefits of fasting like going into ketosis while maintaining lean mass. Unfortunately I'm on my phone only this week so I can't try and find any studies about it, but I came across it first in connection with type 2 Diabetes. So you might have some luck googling those topics for more info.
appleiigs 7y ago
In the book Obesity Code, it says that during fasting human growth hormone levels increase. This maintains muscle mass.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
monkeyshelli 7y ago
Around my 30s I was quite overweight ~310lbs/140kg. Had done some stronglifts 5x5 and then decide to incorporate Keto into the mix (later targeted keto + IF). In the course of few years went down to ~230lbs/105kg while my lifts all went up (e.q squats from around 375lbs/170kg --> 460/210kg). At least my personal "gut feeling" is that I gained some muscle mass (my priority was to drop weight/fat). For the past year, as an experiment, I've eaten carbs "normally" while doing 4x week gym. Few things I've noticed. My gut doesn't feel as good as it did while keto/IF, when you are in Keto and eat a cup of oatmeal ~45min before gym and start lifting you have this insane focus for the heavy 1-3 reps, I can seem to tolerate more better quality volume now compared to while doing keto/IF. But the overall feeling I have outside of the gym while not being in Keto/IF is a bit "sad", so most likely I'll start doing Keto/IF again to feel better. It's funny how insanely sweet strawberries taste while in Keto, and I kinda miss that feeling.

by kace91 7y ago

dvt 7y ago

I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.

bradhoffman 7y ago
Lifting specifically, or any sort of physical activity? I’ve been running and IF for the past month in order to cut my BF %. I was at about 16%, but I’d like to get down to 12%.
- dvt 7y ago
  Lifting; I did Stronglifts 5x5 3 times a week. Part of the reason I stopped is that it got kind of boring and I got absolutely sick of doing squats 3 times a week. It sucked, it was hard (especially on a caloric deficit), but it worked.
- mrosett 7y ago
  I've found that lifting is much better for weight loss than running/biking. I've gained weight while running 30-40 miles/week and typically lose weight while lifting (if I pay attention to my calories.) A lot of people say the same. If you're focused on BF%, lifting is even more appealing since you'll be building muscle/reducing bf% even at a constant weight.
SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
> I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. So what happens? You lose muscle and fat in the same ratio? Or do you keep the fat?
- dvt 7y ago
  I feel that my body kind of adjusts to the fasting and I just don't lose much of anything.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    That sounds to me like "I eat more to make up the calories when I'm not fasting".
- alexbanks 7y ago
  I haven't seen any studies that imply that fasting increases or decreases metabolic rates, which would mean that most people probably won't implicitly gain or lose significant amounts of weight just by switching to intermittent fasting. There are people that literally just start skipping breakfast while keeping lunch/dinner/snacking the same. This is both technically intermittent fasting but also a reduction in overall caloric consumption. These people sometimes attribute their newfound weightloss to IF, when really they just started skipping a calorically dense meal every day.
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  Fat first cus it’s easier to break down. Muscle afterward.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    That's what I would assume, but they said the opposite.
pmart123 7y ago
Interesting. I just started experimenting with a 16-8 fast, and I have noticed that it is hard to eat larger portions when you constrain the eating window to eight hours. Did you think it helped maintain your 15% BF?
- dvt 7y ago
  > Did you think it helped maintain your 15% BF? Nope. I stopped counting macros and started eating just whatever again at the beginning of the summer and I'm slowly gaining the fat back. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts (at least for me).

pizza234 7y ago

I'm personally very skeptical [as well]. I notice that almost nobody that recounts their fasting experience ever mentions sport. I personally found very hard already to progress on weightlifting during diet cycles, as I need to cut on volume significantly; can't imagine to do that while fasting, unless fasting would "flip a switch" in how the (my) body works, which I doubt.

rsync 7y ago
"I'm personally very skeptical [as well]. I notice that almost nobody that recounts their fasting experience ever mentions sport." Allow me to step right up. First, as you might expect, aerobic and endurance exercise benefits greatly from being in a fasted (16-24 hr) state. You're light, quick and your body is devoting zero blood flow (and other resources) to digestion. I suspect you're not surprised by this. Second, I do a 1.5 hour heavy leg workout which includes squats, deadlifts and other assorted "big" movements with weight that is significant, compared to my body weight. No issues at all. I wouldn't do this on a 24 hour fast, but it is my regular habit to do this workout while in a 16-18 hour fasted state and in general I have very slightly better results than if I had eaten recently. Again, the issue is the amount of blood flow (and other resources) your body is putting into digestion. Finally, while it is easy and enjoyable to do my BJJ workouts in a fasted state, I cannot, then, do several rounds of sparring at the end without more recent calories. Or rather, I can but I after round one or two I am running out of gas. YMMV. You should just try it. It costs nothing.
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  First, as you might expect, aerobic and endurance exercise benefits greatly from being in a fasted (16-24 hr) state If that's true, why isn't it a universal practice in amateur and professional athletic competition? (Or, for that matter, why isn't it banned?)
  - argyleaf 7y ago
    I can't speak to endurance (I got into IF after my endurance-athlete days) but I know that body weight-based athletes do this to perform better. My experience is specific to rock climbing. When you are right at the edge of your abilities being just a couple pounds lighter can feel like a world of difference (people hone down their rack to precisely what they need for a route, nothing more), especially on sport and boulder problems. My anecdata points to it being great for the project/performative aspects of the sport but as a tool for consistent progression/improvement, I am less confident in stating anything.

heymijo 7y ago

There is a recent US Military study that shows that under a severe caloric deficit and with increased energy expenditure that yes, you still preserve lean body mass. [0] Granted this was not fasting, but it's interesting nonetheless. Don't be thrown off by the title. Yes, one group received testosterone, but even the placebo group that did not receive anabolic steroids, lost nearly 10 pounds of fat without losing any appreciable amount of lean body mass. Dr. Peter Attia wrote about it in his newsletter this past week. [1] Between my anecdotal experience of not feeling like I lose much lean body mass while fasting, this study above, and recent evidence from studies shown that "muscle memory", where a muscle can quickly regain any lost size it has had, is in fact real...I don't lose much sleep over losing muscle while fasting. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352396419305018 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S235239641... [1] https://peterattiamd.com/can-you-preserve-lean-body-mass-during-semi-starvation/ https://peterattiamd.com/can-you-preserve-lean-body-mass-dur...

jniedrauer 7y ago

I can speak to this a bit. I practiced intermittent fasting (eating once per day) for nearly a decade, while maintaining a very low activity level. My resting metabolic rate dropped significantly during this time (down to about 1300 kcal/day). About a year ago, I increased my activity level significantly (distance running, hiking, strength training, cycling) and quickly found that: a) I wasn't recovering quickly enough b) It was extremely difficult to take in enough calories for a day in a single meal c) I had very low energy when in ketosis Eventually I gave up and just started eating on a typical 3-4 meal a day schedule. My RMR steadily increased back to baseline, I got a lot more explosive energy, my body began responding much more rapidly to training, and my recovery speed improved significantly. Personally I think that intermittent fasting is not a good idea if you are very physically active. That's just my opinion from my own experience.

jodrellblank 7y ago
There is a range of IF between one meal per day, and not doing it at all. Prof Sachin Panda’s research on mice shows effects of 12hrs/12hrs, 8hrs eat/16hrs fast, and fasting some days but not every day. Did you experiment with any other patterns?

kdbg 7y ago

I think for that you might want to research Protein sparing modified fasting, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-sparing_modified_fast https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein-sparing_modified_fas... Gist of it is you still cut significant calories only eating like 500-800 a day in mostly low fat protien rich foods. Targeting only enough protien to avoid muscle wasting. While I'm no doctor or nutritionist, my understanding is that it's for that case, you want some of the benefits of fasting like going into ketosis while maintaining lean mass. Unfortunately I'm on my phone only this week so I can't try and find any studies about it, but I came across it first in connection with type 2 Diabetes. So you might have some luck googling those topics for more info.

appleiigs 7y ago

In the book Obesity Code, it says that during fasting human growth hormone levels increase. This maintains muscle mass.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

monkeyshelli 7y ago

Around my 30s I was quite overweight ~310lbs/140kg. Had done some stronglifts 5x5 and then decide to incorporate Keto into the mix (later targeted keto + IF). In the course of few years went down to ~230lbs/105kg while my lifts all went up (e.q squats from around 375lbs/170kg --> 460/210kg). At least my personal "gut feeling" is that I gained some muscle mass (my priority was to drop weight/fat). For the past year, as an experiment, I've eaten carbs "normally" while doing 4x week gym. Few things I've noticed. My gut doesn't feel as good as it did while keto/IF, when you are in Keto and eat a cup of oatmeal ~45min before gym and start lifting you have this insane focus for the heavy 1-3 reps, I can seem to tolerate more better quality volume now compared to while doing keto/IF. But the overall feeling I have outside of the gym while not being in Keto/IF is a bit "sad", so most likely I'll start doing Keto/IF again to feel better. It's funny how insanely sweet strawberries taste while in Keto, and I kinda miss that feeling.