4 ms·

Discriminating against race, age, gender is bad. You need to treat people fairly. However, when it comes to rich people you think it's OK?

grecy 7y ago
We already do it with progressive taxes. Fines are just a type of tax, so why can't they be progressive too?
- homonculus1 7y ago
  "We already do it" is not really an argument. Many people (rightly or wrongly) disagree with progressive taxation so it's really just an appeal to a non-existent consensus.
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    “We already do it” absolutely is an argument. There’s a thing in law called precedent.
    - homonculus1 7y ago
      My impression was that this is a website for logical discussions, not legal appeals. "Fine the rich because they're globalist pedophiles" is also an argument of sorts but not to the standard I'm talking about.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
Frondo 7y ago
If fines are intended to be punitive, and intended to discourage people from committing crimes, then a person's wealth is the only thing it makes sense to base them on. Otherwise, wealthy people can flout fine-based laws with virtual impunity, while poor can't. That doesn't seem fair, that seems like justice for the poor, lawlessness for the rich.
- knightofmars 7y ago
  "If fines are intended to be punitive..." Exactly! The _intent_ of the action is one of the most important aspects. If a group is disproportionately being penalized (the poor in this case) then the action (the fine) isn't actually fulfilling its intent (to prevent all who receive the fine from breaking the law). This is why "points" where introduced in numerous states to create a demerit point system. Even if a driver can afford 1,000 speeding tickets in a year they will lose their license after receiving a specific amount of demerit points.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving)
lkschubert8 7y ago
Race, age and gender are features of a person so I don't think they are all that analogous to wealth/income which is just something said person has.
jkrems 7y ago
It isn't discrimination to treat people differently. By this logic you shouldn't have handicap parking spaces because that discriminates against people that can't use them. Making people pay the same amount of money for the same crime is discriminating against the poor because the effect on them is higher even though it was the same crime.
deleted 7y ago
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cmiles74 7y ago
Isn't the fine supposed to be punitive and discourage further infractions? If that is the case, the fine will have to scale with the perpetrators income in order to retain bite.

grecy 7y ago

We already do it with progressive taxes. Fines are just a type of tax, so why can't they be progressive too?

homonculus1 7y ago
"We already do it" is not really an argument. Many people (rightly or wrongly) disagree with progressive taxation so it's really just an appeal to a non-existent consensus.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  “We already do it” absolutely is an argument. There’s a thing in law called precedent.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    My impression was that this is a website for logical discussions, not legal appeals. "Fine the rich because they're globalist pedophiles" is also an argument of sorts but not to the standard I'm talking about.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Frondo 7y ago

If fines are intended to be punitive, and intended to discourage people from committing crimes, then a person's wealth is the only thing it makes sense to base them on. Otherwise, wealthy people can flout fine-based laws with virtual impunity, while poor can't. That doesn't seem fair, that seems like justice for the poor, lawlessness for the rich.

knightofmars 7y ago
"If fines are intended to be punitive..." Exactly! The _intent_ of the action is one of the most important aspects. If a group is disproportionately being penalized (the poor in this case) then the action (the fine) isn't actually fulfilling its intent (to prevent all who receive the fine from breaking the law). This is why "points" where introduced in numerous states to create a demerit point system. Even if a driver can afford 1,000 speeding tickets in a year they will lose their license after receiving a specific amount of demerit points.[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_system_(driving)

lkschubert8 7y ago

Race, age and gender are features of a person so I don't think they are all that analogous to wealth/income which is just something said person has.

jkrems 7y ago

It isn't discrimination to treat people differently. By this logic you shouldn't have handicap parking spaces because that discriminates against people that can't use them. Making people pay the same amount of money for the same crime is discriminating against the poor because the effect on them is higher even though it was the same crime.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cmiles74 7y ago

Isn't the fine supposed to be punitive and discourage further infractions? If that is the case, the fine will have to scale with the perpetrators income in order to retain bite.