6 ms·

> Only a handful of countries fine you by according to how much you make. Example: speeding tickets in Switzerland. A guy driving his Lamborghini through a vil

> Only a handful of countries fine you by according to how much you make. Example: speeding tickets in Switzerland. A guy driving his Lamborghini through a village at 60mph had a ticket for several hundred thousand dollars handed to him while I was living there.

xfitm3 7y ago
Which is bad.
- metalliqaz 7y ago
  For a billionaire, that's the same amount of bad as when I get a ticket for $60.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  Why? Speeding kills. It seems reasonable to me that the ticket be proportional to your means, so you don't have a regressive effect where poor people are highly impacted and rich people laugh it off.
  - xfitm3 7y ago
    Speeding kills your pocketbook.
- behringer 7y ago
  Why? You know what happens to a rich Lambo owner when they owe the state 20 bucks? They hire their courier to speed to the post office at 60mph to deliver the check.
- throwaway5752 7y ago
  No it isn't. Handing a $100 fine to person X and person Y is ridiculous when person X makes minimal wage and person Y is a C level executive making $400K. Normalizing the fine to the median income and proportionate changing it by income level is equitable and fair. You can look for legal precedence in bail hearings, where wealth and flight risk are definitely and correctly taken into account.
  - appleiigs 7y ago
    Discriminating against race, age, gender is bad. You need to treat people fairly. However, when it comes to rich people you think it's OK?
    - grecy 7y ago
      We already do it with progressive taxes. Fines are just a type of tax, so why can't they be progressive too?
      - homonculus1 7y ago
        "We already do it" is not really an argument. Many people (rightly or wrongly) disagree with progressive taxation so it's really just an appeal to a non-existent consensus.
        colejohnson66 7y ago
        “We already do it” absolutely is an argument. There’s a thing in law called precedent.
        homonculus1 7y ago
        My impression was that this is a website for logical discussions, not legal appeals. "Fine the rich because they're globalist pedophiles" is also an argument of sorts but not to the standard I'm talking about.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - Frondo 7y ago
      If fines are intended to be punitive, and intended to discourage people from committing crimes, then a person's wealth is the only thing it makes sense to base them on. Otherwise, wealthy people can flout fine-based laws with virtual impunity, while poor can't. That doesn't seem fair, that seems like justice for the poor, lawlessness for the rich.
- coldtea 7y ago
  No, it's proportional, hence just.
- Faark 7y ago
  Depends on implementation. The one I'm familiar with asks for time (e.g. x * daily income). That seems totally fair, since we all have roughly the same amount of days to spend in a life. Jail & co is balanced based on the same principle, but harder to store & exchange, thus bad for minor infraction.
julianwachholz 7y ago
At 60mph ~= 100km/h in city limits (50km/h) it is not a simple fine anymore but a criminal charge. Fines are fixed no matter how much you make. (e.g. 1-5km/h above limit is CHF 40.00)

xfitm3 7y ago

Which is bad.

metalliqaz 7y ago
For a billionaire, that's the same amount of bad as when I get a ticket for $60.
mikepurvis 7y ago
Why? Speeding kills. It seems reasonable to me that the ticket be proportional to your means, so you don't have a regressive effect where poor people are highly impacted and rich people laugh it off.
- xfitm3 7y ago
  Speeding kills your pocketbook.
behringer 7y ago
Why? You know what happens to a rich Lambo owner when they owe the state 20 bucks? They hire their courier to speed to the post office at 60mph to deliver the check.
throwaway5752 7y ago
No it isn't. Handing a $100 fine to person X and person Y is ridiculous when person X makes minimal wage and person Y is a C level executive making $400K. Normalizing the fine to the median income and proportionate changing it by income level is equitable and fair. You can look for legal precedence in bail hearings, where wealth and flight risk are definitely and correctly taken into account.
- appleiigs 7y ago
  Discriminating against race, age, gender is bad. You need to treat people fairly. However, when it comes to rich people you think it's OK?
  - grecy 7y ago
    We already do it with progressive taxes. Fines are just a type of tax, so why can't they be progressive too?
    - homonculus1 7y ago
      "We already do it" is not really an argument. Many people (rightly or wrongly) disagree with progressive taxation so it's really just an appeal to a non-existent consensus.
      - colejohnson66 7y ago
        “We already do it” absolutely is an argument. There’s a thing in law called precedent.
        homonculus1 7y ago
        My impression was that this is a website for logical discussions, not legal appeals. "Fine the rich because they're globalist pedophiles" is also an argument of sorts but not to the standard I'm talking about.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - Frondo 7y ago
    If fines are intended to be punitive, and intended to discourage people from committing crimes, then a person's wealth is the only thing it makes sense to base them on. Otherwise, wealthy people can flout fine-based laws with virtual impunity, while poor can't. That doesn't seem fair, that seems like justice for the poor, lawlessness for the rich.
coldtea 7y ago
No, it's proportional, hence just.
Faark 7y ago
Depends on implementation. The one I'm familiar with asks for time (e.g. x * daily income). That seems totally fair, since we all have roughly the same amount of days to spend in a life. Jail & co is balanced based on the same principle, but harder to store & exchange, thus bad for minor infraction.

julianwachholz 7y ago

At 60mph ~= 100km/h in city limits (50km/h) it is not a simple fine anymore but a criminal charge. Fines are fixed no matter how much you make. (e.g. 1-5km/h above limit is CHF 40.00)