5 ms·

No problem with enforcing the law of the land but locking up kids and separating them from their parents , and withholding essentials like basic cleaning and he

No problem with enforcing the law of the land but locking up kids and separating them from their parents , and withholding essentials like basic cleaning and health services makes this a moral issue of those who enable this i.e Amazon, Palantir etc ...

alfromspace 7y ago
Everyone is separated from their kids when they're arrested. This is a fake scandal. As for poor living conditions, it isn't really a systemic or intentional thing. Conditions vary by facility. Some are remarkably fine, some are strained beyond their capacity. That's not really their fault. Let's apply some agency to the people coming across the border, rather than just ICE. Personally, I wouldn't think to illegally sneak into a country, refuse to leave, then complain about not getting dental care and a comfy bed fast enough. Spare me. How about we just not let them in? https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-head-of-ice-called-family-detention-summer-camp-heres-what-it-looks-like-inside/2019/08/25/8f32609e-c679-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-head-of-ice-c...
- devoply 7y ago
  > Everyone is separated from their kids when they're arrested. This is a fake scandal. Fake outcry. If a parent is sent to jail, the children are given to protective services not sent into internment camps without basic necessities. How about all the Europeans go back to their countries and the natives round up their kids in internment camps.
  - alfromspace 7y ago
    We can complain about conditions in child protective services, too. No system is perfect. I suspect this is a tactical criticism, and the conditions aren't the real objection, but rather the fact that we're not just releasing everyone to freely live in the interior. Are you implying unwanted mass immigration was bad for the native Americans? Is it good for the Europeans now?
    - devoply 7y ago
      You want to deport illegals, no objections from me. But in this case the ends don't justify the means. Do it correctly without causing unnecessary suffering and you won't hear a peep out of me.
      - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
        Care to outline exactly how that would be done? Or what alternative you see?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
artificial 7y ago
Unfortunately the lack of funding is purely political football. Regarding the separation issue, how do feel about prisons which historically involve separation from family members?
- jdsully 7y ago
  Illegal immigration is different because often the entire family commits the crime together. Further an irregular border crossing is a misdemeanor not a Felony. We don’t take kids away from parents for misdemeanors. But even if you ignored the cruel and unusual punishment aspects - deporting the children separately is unforgivable. In some cases they didn’t even bother to record the family connection before separating them.
  - alfromspace 7y ago
    You can absolutely go to jail for misdemeanors.
    - pjc50 7y ago
      None of these people have been convicted of anything. It's not a judicial punishment. Furthermore, some of them aren't even immigrants. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180427-htmlstory.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180... Fundamentally, America has given the right - no, demanded - that police do "papers please" stops on people, and given them the right to detain them indefinitely until they produce papers. This is like a mandatory ID card system but without the benefits or coherent organisation.
      - pnw_hazor 7y ago
        No need for a conviction. Most detained illegal aliens can leave and go home anytime.
        jdsully 7y ago

alfromspace 7y ago

Everyone is separated from their kids when they're arrested. This is a fake scandal. As for poor living conditions, it isn't really a systemic or intentional thing. Conditions vary by facility. Some are remarkably fine, some are strained beyond their capacity. That's not really their fault. Let's apply some agency to the people coming across the border, rather than just ICE. Personally, I wouldn't think to illegally sneak into a country, refuse to leave, then complain about not getting dental care and a comfy bed fast enough. Spare me. How about we just not let them in? https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-head-of-ice-called-family-detention-summer-camp-heres-what-it-looks-like-inside/2019/08/25/8f32609e-c679-11e9-b5e4-54aa56d5b7ce_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/the-head-of-ice-c...

devoply 7y ago
> Everyone is separated from their kids when they're arrested. This is a fake scandal. Fake outcry. If a parent is sent to jail, the children are given to protective services not sent into internment camps without basic necessities. How about all the Europeans go back to their countries and the natives round up their kids in internment camps.
- alfromspace 7y ago
  We can complain about conditions in child protective services, too. No system is perfect. I suspect this is a tactical criticism, and the conditions aren't the real objection, but rather the fact that we're not just releasing everyone to freely live in the interior. Are you implying unwanted mass immigration was bad for the native Americans? Is it good for the Europeans now?
  - devoply 7y ago
    You want to deport illegals, no objections from me. But in this case the ends don't justify the means. Do it correctly without causing unnecessary suffering and you won't hear a peep out of me.
    - fuzz4lyfe 7y ago
      Care to outline exactly how that would be done? Or what alternative you see?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

artificial 7y ago

Unfortunately the lack of funding is purely political football. Regarding the separation issue, how do feel about prisons which historically involve separation from family members?

jdsully 7y ago
Illegal immigration is different because often the entire family commits the crime together. Further an irregular border crossing is a misdemeanor not a Felony. We don’t take kids away from parents for misdemeanors. But even if you ignored the cruel and unusual punishment aspects - deporting the children separately is unforgivable. In some cases they didn’t even bother to record the family connection before separating them.
- alfromspace 7y ago
  You can absolutely go to jail for misdemeanors.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    None of these people have been convicted of anything. It's not a judicial punishment. Furthermore, some of them aren't even immigrants. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180427-htmlstory.html https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-citizens-ice-20180... Fundamentally, America has given the right - no, demanded - that police do "papers please" stops on people, and given them the right to detain them indefinitely until they produce papers. This is like a mandatory ID card system but without the benefits or coherent organisation.
    - pnw_hazor 7y ago
      No need for a conviction. Most detained illegal aliens can leave and go home anytime.
      - jdsully 7y ago