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If a website was on TOR, it would be virtually untrackable by those other companies, right? Technically the website is still using the infrastructure, but they

If a website was on TOR, it would be virtually untrackable by those other companies, right? Technically the website is still using the infrastructure, but they wouldn't have details about the end user. Can we get more "normal" websites on TOR please?

cameronbrown 7y ago
That's true, but we're not living in a world where everyone uses Tor. I think it'd be pretty cool to see though.
- n3k5 7y ago
  Yeah, pretty cool, if you're into cypherpunky solutions to an extent where you don't mind the accompanying dystopia. I get why some users need Tor, many of them for agreeable reasons, and that they would benefit from more people using Tor (and having more nodes available). But I think making it the default way of using the internet for everyone would be stupid. If the average connection goes through n hops, the entire infrastructure would have to be multiplied by that factor. Just the environmental impact (in terms of increased energy consumption and hardware production) would be significant. And when Tor is the only effective option you have for escaping unwanted tracking, you're disadvantaged as soon as you want to use a service that doesn't work well with he increased latency. There has to be a better way. Not that I could say what exactly that would be, but what would be really cool to see is a world in which everyone has worry-free internet access. Multiplying the cost doesn't seem like the best approach.
southerntofu 7y ago
I think you're mixing two different aspects of the Tor project. On the server side, onion services (running a tor daemon that reverse-proxies request to your HTTP/mail server) provide end-to-end encryption and secure name resolution (transport security). On the client side, the Tor Browser is a custom Firefox edition that aims to make user fingerprinting impossible among Tor Browser users. From a server's perspective, they are all the same; they also come from the same IP address (the Tor exit nodes) when the service is not an onion. Enabling an onion service does not prevent 3rd party tracking although it raises the bar. Third-party scripts/cookies can still do plenty of tracking. That's why those (as well as web fonts and SVG) are disabled in Tor Browser's Safer security settings, and javascript is completely disabled in the Safest mode. So fingerprinting protection really is taken care of on the client side. Neither onion routing nor onion services will help you evade tracking if you use a classic browser.

cameronbrown 7y ago

That's true, but we're not living in a world where everyone uses Tor. I think it'd be pretty cool to see though.

n3k5 7y ago
Yeah, pretty cool, if you're into cypherpunky solutions to an extent where you don't mind the accompanying dystopia. I get why some users need Tor, many of them for agreeable reasons, and that they would benefit from more people using Tor (and having more nodes available). But I think making it the default way of using the internet for everyone would be stupid. If the average connection goes through n hops, the entire infrastructure would have to be multiplied by that factor. Just the environmental impact (in terms of increased energy consumption and hardware production) would be significant. And when Tor is the only effective option you have for escaping unwanted tracking, you're disadvantaged as soon as you want to use a service that doesn't work well with he increased latency. There has to be a better way. Not that I could say what exactly that would be, but what would be really cool to see is a world in which everyone has worry-free internet access. Multiplying the cost doesn't seem like the best approach.

southerntofu 7y ago

I think you're mixing two different aspects of the Tor project. On the server side, onion services (running a tor daemon that reverse-proxies request to your HTTP/mail server) provide end-to-end encryption and secure name resolution (transport security). On the client side, the Tor Browser is a custom Firefox edition that aims to make user fingerprinting impossible among Tor Browser users. From a server's perspective, they are all the same; they also come from the same IP address (the Tor exit nodes) when the service is not an onion. Enabling an onion service does not prevent 3rd party tracking although it raises the bar. Third-party scripts/cookies can still do plenty of tracking. That's why those (as well as web fonts and SVG) are disabled in Tor Browser's Safer security settings, and javascript is completely disabled in the Safest mode. So fingerprinting protection really is taken care of on the client side. Neither onion routing nor onion services will help you evade tracking if you use a classic browser.