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The population overall (which is also 30% children) has a labor force participation rate of 65% and a full time labor force participation rate of 55%. Yes, but

The population overall (which is also 30% children) has a labor force participation rate of 65% and a full time labor force participation rate of 55%. Yes, but you're forgetting the simple fact that those people are not poor. There has been a wealth of sociological studies and data about poverty, it's mental, emotional, and social effects, and I would sincerely suggest reading up on them. the poor don't work anywhere near as hard as the rest of us. I disagree. A significant portion of "the rest of us" may be employed, but don't work nearly as hard as most of the poor, especially considering the requirements of raising children on a very small budget in often dangerous neighborhoods. Being poor in the U.S. is without a doubt a daily struggle. And if childcare is the real problem here, there is a very simple solution What you're suggesting is a system of mutual aid, which I wouldn't disagree with, but you should be careful to present it as easy or simple, let alone a silver bullet. If you've never actually worked on a mutual aid project focused on poverty then I would suggest doing so, it would be an enlightening experience as to the dilemmas and pitfalls that crop up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_aid_society http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_aid_society before you tell me how hard the poor struggle with non-employment activities I think you have a very narrow view of what life in poverty entails. I think this is something I would recommend you learn more about. There are plenty of resources out there, not just studies, but stories told by people both in and recently out of poverty. Here's a glimpse: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/ http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/

yummyfajitas 16y ago
I didn't dispute that poor people are poor, or that they might be sociologically, mentally or emotionally different from the non-poor. In fact, I strongly believe that these mental differences (mostly in the areas of laziness) are the cause of their poverty. I simply asserted that they work less, and provided statistics. All you offered in response is data-free assertions that no, they really do work hard in spite of what the official statistics say. Also, I happen to know mutual aid works because I've seen it work. This is what hard working poor people do in (for example) Peru, Mexico and India. You might not be able to persuade US poor people to do it (after all, why work when you can watch TV and eat chips), but that doesn't mean they can't do it. It simply means they don't want to. I think this is something I would recommend you learn more about. There are plenty of resources out there, not just studies, but stories told by people both in and recently out of poverty. Here's a glimpse: Oh wow, a long list of unsupported claims about what it's like to be poor. I guess this means all the statistics I linked to must be incorrect. I've got an idea. Since BLS surveys comprise the vast majority of government spending (don't bother we me with citations to the CBO showing this is incorrect), maybe we can cure our budget deficit by forgoing the data collection and just asking some random guy on the internet for baseless assertions. I give up.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  You might not be able to persuade US poor people to do it (after all, why work when you can watch TV and eat chips) I'm not saying that, you are, and it's pretty insulting the attitude you're taking. I'm saying that I've actually worked on said projects, with varying levels of success. I'm suggesting you work on starting similar projects in the U.S., because it would provide a necessary perspective which you seem to lack. I give up I'm suggesting that government statistics only tell part of the story. I'm assuming you've never been poor in the U.S., so I think it would be useful for you to understand things from that perspective. You seem uninterested, however.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    I lived just above the poverty line in graduate school, and I've spent half my entire adult live living in either low income neighborhoods or neighborhoods with many low income residents [1]. As for mutual aid, perhaps you can explain to us why Peruvian peasants seem to figure it out all by themselves, but poor Americans can't. Is it because the American poor, sitting on their couch with no job, have it so much harder than the uneducated Peruvians waking up at 5AM for the 1000ft climb to reach the potato/coca/corn fields they work on? [1] Harlem no longer qualifies as low income, but plenty of the people there have low/no income.
    - michaelchisari 16y ago
      I lived just above the poverty line in graduate school, and I've spent half my entire adult live living in either low income neighborhoods or neighborhoods with many low income residents That's not really the same for many reasons. why Peruvian peasants seem to figure it out all by themselves, but poor Americans can't That's partially true, but understanding the complexities of why that is is what I'm trying to suggest you discover for yourself. I can guarantee you that the situation is not reducible to such a simplistic charge of laziness.

yummyfajitas 16y ago

I didn't dispute that poor people are poor, or that they might be sociologically, mentally or emotionally different from the non-poor. In fact, I strongly believe that these mental differences (mostly in the areas of laziness) are the cause of their poverty. I simply asserted that they work less, and provided statistics. All you offered in response is data-free assertions that no, they really do work hard in spite of what the official statistics say. Also, I happen to know mutual aid works because I've seen it work. This is what hard working poor people do in (for example) Peru, Mexico and India. You might not be able to persuade US poor people to do it (after all, why work when you can watch TV and eat chips), but that doesn't mean they can't do it. It simply means they don't want to. I think this is something I would recommend you learn more about. There are plenty of resources out there, not just studies, but stories told by people both in and recently out of poverty. Here's a glimpse: Oh wow, a long list of unsupported claims about what it's like to be poor. I guess this means all the statistics I linked to must be incorrect. I've got an idea. Since BLS surveys comprise the vast majority of government spending (don't bother we me with citations to the CBO showing this is incorrect), maybe we can cure our budget deficit by forgoing the data collection and just asking some random guy on the internet for baseless assertions. I give up.

michaelchisari 16y ago
You might not be able to persuade US poor people to do it (after all, why work when you can watch TV and eat chips) I'm not saying that, you are, and it's pretty insulting the attitude you're taking. I'm saying that I've actually worked on said projects, with varying levels of success. I'm suggesting you work on starting similar projects in the U.S., because it would provide a necessary perspective which you seem to lack. I give up I'm suggesting that government statistics only tell part of the story. I'm assuming you've never been poor in the U.S., so I think it would be useful for you to understand things from that perspective. You seem uninterested, however.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  I lived just above the poverty line in graduate school, and I've spent half my entire adult live living in either low income neighborhoods or neighborhoods with many low income residents [1]. As for mutual aid, perhaps you can explain to us why Peruvian peasants seem to figure it out all by themselves, but poor Americans can't. Is it because the American poor, sitting on their couch with no job, have it so much harder than the uneducated Peruvians waking up at 5AM for the 1000ft climb to reach the potato/coca/corn fields they work on? [1] Harlem no longer qualifies as low income, but plenty of the people there have low/no income.
  - michaelchisari 16y ago
    I lived just above the poverty line in graduate school, and I've spent half my entire adult live living in either low income neighborhoods or neighborhoods with many low income residents That's not really the same for many reasons. why Peruvian peasants seem to figure it out all by themselves, but poor Americans can't That's partially true, but understanding the complexities of why that is is what I'm trying to suggest you discover for yourself. I can guarantee you that the situation is not reducible to such a simplistic charge of laziness.