5 ms·

is it hip now to try and ban competitors from doing business :/ . grow up. where are the days of trying to beat competitors with a better product?

ivoras 7y ago
That time never actually existed. Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Facebook... and practically every large business since Rockefeller and before, did everything in their power, including regulatory capture, to hobble their competition. It's the nature of doing business at scale.
- Merrill 7y ago
  The invention of the telephone, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisha_Gray_and_Alexander_Bell_telephone_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisha_Gray_and_Alexander_Bell...
- decoyworker 7y ago
  Microsoft and Apple do not make good products?
  - vectorEQ 7y ago
    always everyone only looks at few examples such as these companies. who actually do make decent products. (good luck making better OS than them for example... ) but look at things like ZOOM. they make product which has no new features. it just works better and that's why people use it. it does exist. just not in the minds of people who numb themselves with clickbait.
    - moomin 7y ago
      Of course, back in the day people did make better operating systems than Microsoft, and Microsoft deliberately broke their other offerings to put them out of business. And seriously, Apple’s no better. iTunes didn’t survive because it was the best way to put music on your iPod, but because they sued the competitors out of existence. Microsoft and Apple make good products, but most of the money comes from locking you into inferior products.
  - AsyncAwait 7y ago
    That wasn't the claim. The claim is they tried to squash any competition possibly making a better product. They've literally been convicted of that.
    - decoyworker 7y ago
      I was replying to- "where are the days of trying to beat competitors with a better product?" and then Apple and Microsoft were listed in response as offenders. So they have inferior products than the competition?
      - AsyncAwait 7y ago
        > So they have inferior products than the competition? In some cases yes, they did and had & tried to squash that competition. Less so today, since there's little competition where they dominate, but MS for example has a well documented history of doing just that[1]. I think you're conflating such behavior with not making any good products, which is obviously not the case. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....
        decoyworker 7y ago
        I know about the past- I still tend to believe that the better product wins. You're pointing at Internet Explorer in 2001 as to why Windows is the #1 desktop operating system today? It was a better product- with or without this shitty business practice 20 years ago.
        AsyncAwait 7y ago
        > why Windows is the #1 desktop operating system today? Because nobody's even attempting to compete in that space anymore. Many would argue BeOS was better, or some UNIX variant was better etc. The point is MS has sprung into its monopoly position via many at least questionable tactics & then used that position to keep others at bay. That message has been received & nowdays nobody on the desktop is even trying because going against per-installed Windows on every PC you can commonly buy is hard to beat. Intel had a worse product when AMD came out with 64bit CPUs and so they used their position & partnerships to play dirty, Apple arguably does not play fair against Spotify etc. That does not mean the better product never wins. Nobody said that. It's just that it hardly wins every time, like it should.
minikites 7y ago
Those days only existed in the stories of Horatio Alger and other capitalist mythologies.
oh_sigh 7y ago
I said the same thing when JK Rowling prevented me from publishing my pirated copies of Harry Potter. Why aren't I allowed to do business but she is?

ivoras 7y ago

That time never actually existed. Microsoft, IBM, Apple, Facebook... and practically every large business since Rockefeller and before, did everything in their power, including regulatory capture, to hobble their competition. It's the nature of doing business at scale.

Merrill 7y ago
The invention of the telephone, for example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisha_Gray_and_Alexander_Bell_telephone_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisha_Gray_and_Alexander_Bell...
decoyworker 7y ago
Microsoft and Apple do not make good products?
- vectorEQ 7y ago
  always everyone only looks at few examples such as these companies. who actually do make decent products. (good luck making better OS than them for example... ) but look at things like ZOOM. they make product which has no new features. it just works better and that's why people use it. it does exist. just not in the minds of people who numb themselves with clickbait.
  - moomin 7y ago
    Of course, back in the day people did make better operating systems than Microsoft, and Microsoft deliberately broke their other offerings to put them out of business. And seriously, Apple’s no better. iTunes didn’t survive because it was the best way to put music on your iPod, but because they sued the competitors out of existence. Microsoft and Apple make good products, but most of the money comes from locking you into inferior products.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  That wasn't the claim. The claim is they tried to squash any competition possibly making a better product. They've literally been convicted of that.
  - decoyworker 7y ago
    I was replying to- "where are the days of trying to beat competitors with a better product?" and then Apple and Microsoft were listed in response as offenders. So they have inferior products than the competition?
    - AsyncAwait 7y ago
      > So they have inferior products than the competition? In some cases yes, they did and had & tried to squash that competition. Less so today, since there's little competition where they dominate, but MS for example has a well documented history of doing just that[1]. I think you're conflating such behavior with not making any good products, which is obviously not the case. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor....
      - decoyworker 7y ago
        I know about the past- I still tend to believe that the better product wins. You're pointing at Internet Explorer in 2001 as to why Windows is the #1 desktop operating system today? It was a better product- with or without this shitty business practice 20 years ago.
        AsyncAwait 7y ago
        > why Windows is the #1 desktop operating system today? Because nobody's even attempting to compete in that space anymore. Many would argue BeOS was better, or some UNIX variant was better etc. The point is MS has sprung into its monopoly position via many at least questionable tactics & then used that position to keep others at bay. That message has been received & nowdays nobody on the desktop is even trying because going against per-installed Windows on every PC you can commonly buy is hard to beat. Intel had a worse product when AMD came out with 64bit CPUs and so they used their position & partnerships to play dirty, Apple arguably does not play fair against Spotify etc. That does not mean the better product never wins. Nobody said that. It's just that it hardly wins every time, like it should.

minikites 7y ago

Those days only existed in the stories of Horatio Alger and other capitalist mythologies.

oh_sigh 7y ago

I said the same thing when JK Rowling prevented me from publishing my pirated copies of Harry Potter. Why aren't I allowed to do business but she is?