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The downside of this French attitude of everyone being "just French" is that the earlier diversity of identities/languages has also been largely homogenised. Th

The downside of this French attitude of everyone being "just French" is that the earlier diversity of identities/languages has also been largely homogenised. Think Alsacian, Languedoc, etc. The effect reaches well beyond France: as other countries fell in love with the model, they went after their own historical ethnic/linguistic minorities with the same determination throughout the 20th century.

ur-whale 7y ago
>has also been largely homogenised You say it like it's a bad thing.
- Glawen 7y ago
  why is it a good thing. For Alsace, the goal of the french state was clear: kill the alsatian culture so that alsatians do not side anymore with the germans. This began by prohibiting children to speak alsatian. Now, the new generation cannot speak it anymore and cannot understand their neighbours (Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland). They have to learn German in school, and they are not particularly good at it. It is a shame, as it would be a nice advantage for them in the current EU. The same happened for other regions (Bretagne, Languedoc, Corsica, Pays basque).
  - seren 7y ago
    I believe what ur-whale is saying is that cultural homogenization, is often seen as bad things for the short term for people that have to endure it, but relatively for the long term it creates more homogeneous region with a shared culture. For example, the Roman Empire destroyed or assimilated hundreds of smaller culture, but it also have the long term effect of creating a common ancestor culture for most of Europe.
tomlockwood 7y ago
And the funny thing about that is that rhetoric on the right about the loss of national/white identity and the homogenisation of groups is also accompanied with rhetoric about people on the left having too many identities, or an obsession with different identities. I think you're totally right though, there has definitely been a loss of racial/ethnic/linguistic identity in the world. However, additionally there's been an explosion of other identities. Take from this example the idea that there are a large group of Parisians of "tunisian origin". That just could not have existed in the ages when people rarely travelled a few miles from home. Consider also that the subjects now exist in a nationwide community of baguette bakers - very niche, probably enabled by better communications and transport in this age. Then there's all the other subcultures the subjects probably find themselves at the intersections of, that we don't see talked about in the article. But sure, identifying with your small region of France has been homogenised away.

ur-whale 7y ago

>has also been largely homogenised You say it like it's a bad thing.

Glawen 7y ago
why is it a good thing. For Alsace, the goal of the french state was clear: kill the alsatian culture so that alsatians do not side anymore with the germans. This began by prohibiting children to speak alsatian. Now, the new generation cannot speak it anymore and cannot understand their neighbours (Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland). They have to learn German in school, and they are not particularly good at it. It is a shame, as it would be a nice advantage for them in the current EU. The same happened for other regions (Bretagne, Languedoc, Corsica, Pays basque).
- seren 7y ago
  I believe what ur-whale is saying is that cultural homogenization, is often seen as bad things for the short term for people that have to endure it, but relatively for the long term it creates more homogeneous region with a shared culture. For example, the Roman Empire destroyed or assimilated hundreds of smaller culture, but it also have the long term effect of creating a common ancestor culture for most of Europe.

tomlockwood 7y ago

And the funny thing about that is that rhetoric on the right about the loss of national/white identity and the homogenisation of groups is also accompanied with rhetoric about people on the left having too many identities, or an obsession with different identities. I think you're totally right though, there has definitely been a loss of racial/ethnic/linguistic identity in the world. However, additionally there's been an explosion of other identities. Take from this example the idea that there are a large group of Parisians of "tunisian origin". That just could not have existed in the ages when people rarely travelled a few miles from home. Consider also that the subjects now exist in a nationwide community of baguette bakers - very niche, probably enabled by better communications and transport in this age. Then there's all the other subcultures the subjects probably find themselves at the intersections of, that we don't see talked about in the article. But sure, identifying with your small region of France has been homogenised away.