6 ms·

In my opinion, the conscious thoughts you have are just echoes of your mind. When you "talk to yourself" you already know what you are going to say, you might a

by kalado 7y ago

In my opinion, the conscious thoughts you have are just echoes of your mind. When you "talk to yourself" you already know what you are going to say, you might as well just stop as soon as you notice doing that.

omeid2 7y ago
I am not sure this holds. Many of your thoughts are formed as you speak, there is even evidence that talking to yourself in third-person helps you stay more calmer and objective. https://aeon.co/ideas/why-speaking-to-yourself-in-the-third-person-makes-you-wiser https://aeon.co/ideas/why-speaking-to-yourself-in-the-third-...
- kalado 7y ago
  This does not contradict what I said. If you use conscious thought as a tool, like deliberately using third person, this can change your perception of your self. I am talking about the usual thoughts you have that are unprompted. I feel like the article is not disagreeing with me on that necessarily. There are also experiments that support that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCt-L0Ph5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCt-L0Ph5o
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Many of your thoughts are formed as you speak, there is even evidence that talking to yourself in third-person helps you stay more calmer and objective. Talking to yourself in third-person means having switched into thinking of yourself as some third party which can itself affect subsequent thoughts/talking, so this doesn't contradict what the parent says.
  - omeid2 7y ago
    If the exact "thought" already existed before consciously running through them, it should not change with the language you use, but I don't believe that is the case, not only talking about yourself in third-person affects your thought, the link between language and thought goes much deeper, even if the specific of it is fairly contentious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity
fzeroracer 7y ago
For me, that's never been true at all. Imagine your thoughts being like a barrel full of fish. Vocalizing your thoughts is then akin to reaching down into that barrel and plucking out the exact fish you were looking for. Now if you wanted to describe the the color and species of said fish, it's easier when you're holding it rather than attempting to do so while it's swimming around with every other fish.
- _carl_jung 7y ago
  I regularly feel similar to OP. It's like I think the "concept" very quickly/immediately, and then a split second later I vocalise it. I then usually think something like "I know, I already thought that" or "I don't need to say it", as a kind of automatic criticism of my own thought process.
- benj111 7y ago
  Paradoxically, if you want to find something, it helps if you say it, so its easier to find the fish if you're already talking about it. https://theweek.com/articles/476117/talking-yourself-secret-finding-missing-car-keys https://theweek.com/articles/476117/talking-yourself-secret-...
  - kalado 7y ago
    Makes sense. Our brain is an interconnected mess that self activates different path of neurons. So if you try to remember where you put your keys, saying the word, looking at an image of keys or hearing junbling keys might lead to the memory of where you put your keys.
- kalado 7y ago
  I'd say it's more like one fish jumped in your arms and you start descriping it when it was the thought coming into your focus and and not your focus choosing the thought. You can of course reiterate and sort your knowledge by thinking about it if there is a reason. If you just think around when you are not trying to solve a problem you are just playing with your mind without any or much of a result.
tialaramex 7y ago
It's conceivable that this really is how it works for you. Because we can't compare how our minds work the way we can compare how say, our mouths work, the variations surprise us. Still, if this is your experience it's unusual.
- kalado 7y ago
  I didn't always thought like that. I only recognized this after I had a "dark night of the soul" / ego death. Since then I've managed to not see my my thoughts as beeing all I am, losing most of my anxiety (which was on a normal level) and generally being more happy and motivated to work on myself.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
comboy 7y ago
When you formulate a thought or a sentence you compress vast amounts of data into something that's understandable in more general context. Once you've done that compression, you interpret that generalization once again as you vocalize it. This reinterpretation is powerful and may trigger some ideas that you haven't had before. Besides, try doing math or debugging some code without any conscious thoughts. I agree most of the time it may be a broken record and useless, especially if you repeat the same patterns over and over again, but I'm quite certain you don't know what you are going to say until you've said it (out loud or not).
- kalado 7y ago
  That's not really what I was trying to get at. Putting your thoughts into words so that they can be understood by someone other than yourself or working through a problem are both deliberate ways of thinking that have clear benefits. I do disagree with your last part. It's quite hard to test though. But let's say I'd ask you to just talk about any topic you want without preparing what you are going to say and right when you start a sentence I will randomly create some signal/noise which you should understand as the signal to stop talking immediately. I'd say you will know exactly what you were about to say.
  - comboy 7y ago
    I agree my consciousness may be lagging behind your test equipment. I have no idea how much impact this sentence that I did not finish formulating would have on me, but clearly finishing it, is providing me with some experience that I didn't have before (unless it's something that I've said before, but even then the context is already different).
- neuralzen 7y ago
  Sure, discursive thinking is useful, but doing it as an unconscious habit is problematic. That's what meditation seeks to help address, for example, and cease the endless 'chatter in your skull'. Like, when you're thirsty and see a bottle of water on the counter, why think to yourself "I'm thirsty. There's some water there I can drink." Who are you talking to? You know you are thirsty, and you know you can drink it. The discursive thinking to echo it to yourself is just a bad, clutter-some habit.
interfixus 7y ago
> you might as well just stop as soon as you notice doing that I don't believe my mind will benefit from being passed through a buggy optimizing compiler.
mensetmanusman 7y ago
Psychologists recommend against this because ‘talking to yourself’ is connected to a lot of positive mental health. Notice young children talking to themselves in their own little world as they start to grasp and build their ego.
- kalado 7y ago
  There is quite a difference between talking to yourself out loud and constant mental chattering. Psychologist also encourage mindfulness/meditation to calm your mind, which is more what I'm trying to get at.
  - mensetmanusman 7y ago
    There seems to be a transition in the young between when they talk out loud to themselves and then when they bring the voice inside. Interestingly, some people do not have an inner voice...
plutonorm 7y ago
I have had the same thought many times. I find it annoying that part of my mind insists on sub-vocalising the words when I know what it is I am thinking already. But as others have said sometimes it is useful as you re-analyse the words once they are formed. Yeah, but most of the time it's an annoying waste of time. It's like there is a big mess of interconnected thoughts, intuitions, sensations clustering into a thought, fumbling along nicely on it's own... and then the apparatus in my mind responsible for flattening it all into words jumps in, totally unrequested
izzydata 7y ago
But putting it into words would help solidify those thoughts into concepts you can grasp and then later articulate.
knolax 7y ago
> When you "talk to yourself" you already know what you are going to say, you might as well just stop as soon as you notice doing that. Why? I'm good company.
oarabbus_ 7y ago
This seems incredibly dubious if not completely factually false. Neuroscience doesn't support this claim whatsoever (especially the "you already know what you are going to say" part) There is a reason the most brilliant minds engaged in thought experiments, which consisted of internal dialogues with themselves.

by kalado 7y ago

omeid2 7y ago

I am not sure this holds. Many of your thoughts are formed as you speak, there is even evidence that talking to yourself in third-person helps you stay more calmer and objective. https://aeon.co/ideas/why-speaking-to-yourself-in-the-third-person-makes-you-wiser https://aeon.co/ideas/why-speaking-to-yourself-in-the-third-...

kalado 7y ago
This does not contradict what I said. If you use conscious thought as a tool, like deliberately using third person, this can change your perception of your self. I am talking about the usual thoughts you have that are unprompted. I feel like the article is not disagreeing with me on that necessarily. There are also experiments that support that idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCt-L0Ph5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjCt-L0Ph5o
coldtea 7y ago
>Many of your thoughts are formed as you speak, there is even evidence that talking to yourself in third-person helps you stay more calmer and objective. Talking to yourself in third-person means having switched into thinking of yourself as some third party which can itself affect subsequent thoughts/talking, so this doesn't contradict what the parent says.
- omeid2 7y ago
  If the exact "thought" already existed before consciously running through them, it should not change with the language you use, but I don't believe that is the case, not only talking about yourself in third-person affects your thought, the link between language and thought goes much deeper, even if the specific of it is fairly contentious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity

fzeroracer 7y ago

For me, that's never been true at all. Imagine your thoughts being like a barrel full of fish. Vocalizing your thoughts is then akin to reaching down into that barrel and plucking out the exact fish you were looking for. Now if you wanted to describe the the color and species of said fish, it's easier when you're holding it rather than attempting to do so while it's swimming around with every other fish.

_carl_jung 7y ago
I regularly feel similar to OP. It's like I think the "concept" very quickly/immediately, and then a split second later I vocalise it. I then usually think something like "I know, I already thought that" or "I don't need to say it", as a kind of automatic criticism of my own thought process.
benj111 7y ago
Paradoxically, if you want to find something, it helps if you say it, so its easier to find the fish if you're already talking about it. https://theweek.com/articles/476117/talking-yourself-secret-finding-missing-car-keys https://theweek.com/articles/476117/talking-yourself-secret-...
- kalado 7y ago
  Makes sense. Our brain is an interconnected mess that self activates different path of neurons. So if you try to remember where you put your keys, saying the word, looking at an image of keys or hearing junbling keys might lead to the memory of where you put your keys.
kalado 7y ago
I'd say it's more like one fish jumped in your arms and you start descriping it when it was the thought coming into your focus and and not your focus choosing the thought. You can of course reiterate and sort your knowledge by thinking about it if there is a reason. If you just think around when you are not trying to solve a problem you are just playing with your mind without any or much of a result.

tialaramex 7y ago

It's conceivable that this really is how it works for you. Because we can't compare how our minds work the way we can compare how say, our mouths work, the variations surprise us. Still, if this is your experience it's unusual.

kalado 7y ago
I didn't always thought like that. I only recognized this after I had a "dark night of the soul" / ego death. Since then I've managed to not see my my thoughts as beeing all I am, losing most of my anxiety (which was on a normal level) and generally being more happy and motivated to work on myself.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

comboy 7y ago

When you formulate a thought or a sentence you compress vast amounts of data into something that's understandable in more general context. Once you've done that compression, you interpret that generalization once again as you vocalize it. This reinterpretation is powerful and may trigger some ideas that you haven't had before. Besides, try doing math or debugging some code without any conscious thoughts. I agree most of the time it may be a broken record and useless, especially if you repeat the same patterns over and over again, but I'm quite certain you don't know what you are going to say until you've said it (out loud or not).

kalado 7y ago
That's not really what I was trying to get at. Putting your thoughts into words so that they can be understood by someone other than yourself or working through a problem are both deliberate ways of thinking that have clear benefits. I do disagree with your last part. It's quite hard to test though. But let's say I'd ask you to just talk about any topic you want without preparing what you are going to say and right when you start a sentence I will randomly create some signal/noise which you should understand as the signal to stop talking immediately. I'd say you will know exactly what you were about to say.
- comboy 7y ago
  I agree my consciousness may be lagging behind your test equipment. I have no idea how much impact this sentence that I did not finish formulating would have on me, but clearly finishing it, is providing me with some experience that I didn't have before (unless it's something that I've said before, but even then the context is already different).
neuralzen 7y ago
Sure, discursive thinking is useful, but doing it as an unconscious habit is problematic. That's what meditation seeks to help address, for example, and cease the endless 'chatter in your skull'. Like, when you're thirsty and see a bottle of water on the counter, why think to yourself "I'm thirsty. There's some water there I can drink." Who are you talking to? You know you are thirsty, and you know you can drink it. The discursive thinking to echo it to yourself is just a bad, clutter-some habit.

interfixus 7y ago

> you might as well just stop as soon as you notice doing that I don't believe my mind will benefit from being passed through a buggy optimizing compiler.

mensetmanusman 7y ago

Psychologists recommend against this because ‘talking to yourself’ is connected to a lot of positive mental health. Notice young children talking to themselves in their own little world as they start to grasp and build their ego.

kalado 7y ago
There is quite a difference between talking to yourself out loud and constant mental chattering. Psychologist also encourage mindfulness/meditation to calm your mind, which is more what I'm trying to get at.
- mensetmanusman 7y ago
  There seems to be a transition in the young between when they talk out loud to themselves and then when they bring the voice inside. Interestingly, some people do not have an inner voice...

plutonorm 7y ago

I have had the same thought many times. I find it annoying that part of my mind insists on sub-vocalising the words when I know what it is I am thinking already. But as others have said sometimes it is useful as you re-analyse the words once they are formed. Yeah, but most of the time it's an annoying waste of time. It's like there is a big mess of interconnected thoughts, intuitions, sensations clustering into a thought, fumbling along nicely on it's own... and then the apparatus in my mind responsible for flattening it all into words jumps in, totally unrequested

izzydata 7y ago

But putting it into words would help solidify those thoughts into concepts you can grasp and then later articulate.

knolax 7y ago

> When you "talk to yourself" you already know what you are going to say, you might as well just stop as soon as you notice doing that. Why? I'm good company.

oarabbus_ 7y ago

This seems incredibly dubious if not completely factually false. Neuroscience doesn't support this claim whatsoever (especially the "you already know what you are going to say" part) There is a reason the most brilliant minds engaged in thought experiments, which consisted of internal dialogues with themselves.